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Portland, Oregon

Hi - In relation to these questions, please see the two pics in my diary at http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryView.asp?season=2023&grower=50602&action=L

The pumpkin in the picture looks malformed to me. It's not shaped well and isn't shiny. Is it one that didn't quite "take" and that should be cut off? It's on the primary about 8' from the roots. I have another on the primary about 6' farther out that is round and shiny, but only about the size of a cantaloupe. Should I cut off this ugly one and focus on the round, shiny, smaller one?

My primary vine is growing like gangbusters, but most or all of the secondaries stopped growing and many have wilted ends, as shown in the second picture. I don't have a single tertiary vine and no female flowers on any secondaries. I haven't tried growing one for a few years, but I had malformed pumpkins thae last couple times I tried to grow. I don't think it is the seeds. Do you think this is a nutrient issue? I believe I've kept up on the watering, but this plant wilts at the slightest amount of heat.

8/10/2023 6:47:55 PM

Lewistown,IL

I would cut the misshapened one off.
It doesn't make sense the secondaries are no good but the main is ok...
After this year i would have a soil test done looking for herbicides in the soil and for diseases..The end of the secondary looks like herbicide damage to me.
You mention the deformed fruit in past years leads me to believe it is soil borne and not any nutrient issues.
The wilting is a sign of the lack of a good root system and the plants inability to keep it hydrated. Like new secondaries on a hot day will wilt in the afternoon sun and perk back up in the evening.

8/11/2023 3:14:13 PM

Portland, Oregon

Thank you. The fact that the primary is growing so well is a real head-scratcher. By a nutrient issue, I meant that perhaps my soil is missing some important nutrient rather than a general lack of nutrition. I don't think the soil is contaminated with herbicides as this is a backyard garden that we've used for quite a long time now with no issues (and without using herbicides). I agree that soil test is in order.

8/11/2023 5:15:50 PM

The leaves look fairly normal up to that end and I am thinking that thers was chem burn of some sort whether spayed or splashed on. Plus the big leaf looks like burn on part of it. Did you spray or water chems on a hot day or just before sun hit them? Does not take much on tender ends.

Just my opinion based on I should not have done that.

8/13/2023 2:47:40 PM

Grittyville, WA

The only thing I can advise is to keep the drip line away from the pumpkin...
But also, more water won't necessarily stop them from wilting. Rather, more rock-type minerals, and more healthy roots, should stop the wilting?

8/13/2023 9:33:37 PM

Portland, Oregon

I posted three more pictures of a vine tip that I cut off and examined up close. At first glance it looks like pests, but close inspection did not reveal any critters, eggs, or dead bodies. The only foliar spray I use is weak miracle grow and Neptune's harvest and I only spray in the morning when it is pretty cool. The brown spot on the larger leaf that spudder mentioned is actually a dried up flower underneath. This condition affects the entire plant except the primary, which continues to look healthy and grow. I do now have one pumpkin that I think has "set." Could it be genetics? I gave a neighbor a seed from the same pumpkin and I walked by her house yesterday and noticed that her pumpkins looked malformed and like they are not growing. I couldn't inspect closely, but it looked the tips of her secondaries were also dried and stunted.

8/16/2023 12:22:23 PM

Grittyville, WA

Its just nutrients. Its good that you are fertilizing them but they are hungry beasts and our PNW soil is deficient. Calcium, zinc, phosphorus... plus sulfer and all the micronutrients except iron.

8/16/2023 1:01:17 PM

Grittyville, WA

If your soil is like mine, then all it has in it is to start with is potassium and iron and silicates... so there's a lot missing. All I'm seeing in your seeing in those vine tips is multiple missing nutrients.

8/16/2023 1:05:04 PM

Syracuse, NY

My belief throughout is that we are not fertilizing enough.
If you are using weak Miracle-Gro you need to use it at full strength, 1 tablespoon per gallon, as any fertilizer should be used, 2-3 X a week.
A war is not won with rubber bullets. I've never cared as to when I've
watered my plants, although there are many probably-valid theories about it.

Of my own fruits, about 4 of them now have what appears to be malnutrition at their most-critical stage, once they get to be about a beach ball+ in size, just like the malformed one you cut off, I guess. I have one just like that that I am intending will pick up where it left off...

This probably applies to vine tips and leaves as well. As LK, here, has theorized and I agree fully with, even the oldest leaves on a plant show malnutrition because the plant is possibly taking back whatever nutrients it can to support the further growth of the plant when WE don't need it to. I believe this is also the process by which leaves on trees decolor, wither and fall off as well.
Some effects can be reversed, but not all.

I JUST today got my fertilizer that I've been waiting for and up until I ran out of MG a couple of times waiting on other ferts that never came or were ordered in error, I had the best plants I've ever had and once I started NOT fertilizing due to 'grower error', lol, that's when I started having problems.

If the MG you are using is 24-8-16, switch to either 20-20-20 or
15-30-15 or 10-52-10 if you can; Keep 24-8-16 for next year's initial need for fast plant growth. No amount can hurt at MY house and you're already using MG anyway. Hey, Buddy!
PS---If the main vine is growing so well, what other little vine(s) will
have anything to say about it, right?
Have fun - eric g

8/16/2023 3:31:16 PM

Colorado

Jeff my guess is heat stress and light on the watering.You might be a little weak on soil nutient quality but that also limits your soils moisture holding abilities.Just a guess. Your main vine leaves look good.Have you had giant pumpkins make it to the finish line?

8/16/2023 7:55:37 PM

Grittyville, WA

I didnt know MG made so many kinds, ha! You must live by the outlet store

I agree with cojoe, its so dry here now, but if you evenly irrigate at least 10 ft around the plant that will make more nutrients available... eventually. The problem with a single (?) drip line and some hand watering is some areas might be oversaturated while other areas might still be dry. If thats the case, it really limits what the roots can access.

8/16/2023 8:23:52 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Jeff, your success or failure in any garden starts with your soil and not a water soluable chemical fertilizer.

Work on your soil, do soil tests, add compost if necessary, grow a cover crop and get a local mentor who can help you prep your soil for future growing years.

We have used the Langley Soil estimator the past few years and concentrated on balancing the base saturations. All fertilizers were added prior to planting according to the soil analysis and the Langley spreadsheet and nothing (especially Miracle-Gro) has been added since.

If you don’t already know, study up on Base Saturations and work on balancing those. Best of luck in the future.

https://www.alcanada.com/pdf/Tech_Bulletins/Soil/Optimum_Levels/552-Understanding_CEC.pdf

https://symbiosis.co.nz/natures-teaching/soilchemistry/base-saturation/

https://youtu.be/MbgnW3Rsis8

8/17/2023 10:18:45 AM

Portland, Oregon

You all have given me a lot to think about. Thank you. Like much in life, it's probably a complicated combination of things rather than one simple thing.

Reacting to a few of the comments and suggestions:

This is a household garden that sometimes I use for a "giant" pumpkin and other years do a regular garden. The only chemical I use is the occasional (weekly or less) foliar feed of the pumpkin plant with MG. To prep for the pumpkin I dig a big hole and mix in organic fertilizer based on the recipe in Steve Solomon's book about growing veggies in the PNW and several bags of steer manure. I don't prep the rest of the bed, except to till the soil, which is probably a mistake. I often plant a winter cover crop and till it in, but sometimes forget and then just cover the soil with leaves for the winter.

I've been trying to water with the drip system but as folks have pointed out, the main vine gets good water and a few other spots, but not the entire bed. I went with drip because of concerns about getting the leaves wet. A couple weeks ago I started watering a lot more heavily with an overhead sprinkler, and the plant seems to have responded favorably. The other day it was nearly 100 degrees and the leaves were not wilted, even though earlier in the year the entire plant wilted as soon as the sun hit in the morning, with temps in the upper 70s. That suggests to me that the root system was not developed earlier and is better now, and that the soil has more water in it.

Until a few minutes ago I thought I had a viable pumpkin but when I went to take a picture, it looks like it might be deforming too. It is still shiny, but starting to go out of round. (I added a picture of it and the entire plant to my diary.)

I think next year involves soil testing, better prepping of the entire bed, and better watering of the entire bed, and maybe a seed from a different source.

8/17/2023 1:30:40 PM

Grittyville, WA

Some seed lineages will be prone to abort, unless they know they are in Steve Daletas' patch, or somewhere else with truly unlimited resources, lol.

Other seeds will set better in a small garden. For a small garden I think the classic orange lineages would be worth a try.

Hopefully its still growing...

8/17/2023 1:40:40 PM

Syracuse, NY

Glenn, I realize that having one's soil in tip-top shape to begin with is of course,
important in any and all aspects of growing a giant pumpkin.

Duh.

>>>Personally, Jeff, your plant and pumpkin look fine to me and
although there's this ongoing CRAP about whether to use Miracle-Gro or not,
if you don't do anything differently, nothing will change and you won't have given the

IMMEDIATE, 2023 advice a chance.

If I lived next door to you, I'd talk you into it with "What have you got to lose?'
and do as I said on that plant and make a bet of $100 that it'd have no negative effect, only positive, lol---

Good thing I'm in NY, eh?

(He probably went on about his business since he heard all he needed to here.)

Okayyyy, time to go get a new cell phone at Wal-Mart.

Is that OK, NSB??? You wanna recommend a brand to me?

Hey, every experience is a learning experience and I keep my typing skills sharp on here
every day, so, good to go! Later---eg

8/17/2023 5:16:21 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Pumpkinpal2 I never mentioned you in my response to Jeff, so why do you need to offer a snarky response to my post and bring up my name in your response?

You are a one trick pony and offer only the same advice to anyone asking a question on here and then you want to bicker with everyone else when they offer up an answer or other suggestion. No wonder growers are leaving website in large numbers.

Hey Jeff, or anyone else out there looking for a mentor or trying to analyze or scrutinize advice, just do yourself a favour a look at that persons grower diary, then decide whether the issuer of said advice is worth following.

Pumpkinpal2, leave me out of your pettiness.

8/17/2023 5:34:58 PM

San Diego, Ca.

Jeff, I'm glad to see you posted a picture of your whole plant because after seeing the first pictures you posted it left me wondering what the rest of the plant looked like.
In my opinion, although your plant is green it looks weak to me based off the way the vines and tips look. It doesn't appear to have much vigor. In most cases that points to an issue with your soil.

NSB above gave you some very good advice. In preparation for next season I would add to what he said by first, after getting your soil tested to get your pH adjusted in the 6.5 to 7.0 range. This is key to getting nutrient availability in your soil. Then start working on fine tuning the base saturations and getting the micros balanced. If you haven't downloaded the Langley Soil Estimator you should do so and learn how to use it. It is an extremely valuable tool for adjusting and balancing your soil. Cecil Weston has a Youtube tutorial on how to use it that will help you a ton.

8/17/2023 5:40:50 PM

San Diego, Ca.

You also mentioned above that you followed someone else's recipe for preparing your soil...just as people are individually different, so are soils. Its never a one size fits all recipe. When you blindly through all sorts of nutrients in the soil you really have no idea what nutrients you actually needed or didn't need. That throws your soil nutrients out of balance causing more problems. This is where the beauty of the Langley Soil Estimator really shines. Based off results from your soil test and put into the estimator program you will know exactly what you should be adding to get your soil balanced. Miracle Grow is not the answer...you would be doing yourself a favor by tossing it.

Also another thing you mentioned was that you are preparing a "big hole" where you put in all your goodies.
Treat your entire growing area the same, not just the "big hole". Those secondary's put down roots that need those same nutrients just like the stump does. When you take samples for a soil test you take small samples from all over your patch to get an average of what the patch nutrients look like as a whole. Therefore, when you add nutrients to the patch you do it as a whole also.

Hopefully this all makes sense to you and helps point you in the right direction.

8/17/2023 5:41:00 PM

Syracuse, NY

So, I'm following Glenn's links now and will add the deets to my vast knowledgebase. A new monitor + Professor DeBacco?
I picked a...good year to stave off drinking.
Not kidding - Will enjoy! eg

8/17/2023 5:47:10 PM

Syracuse, NY

Whoops - had not seen the retort above but I'll honor it, no problem and will do; The problem is that you recommend AGAINST what particularly III recommend FOR and pretty much no one else does that. Pretty much only once III have said anything, along you come, right away to guide others in your own direction. OK. You could say whatever you want to advise them WITHOUT negating what perhaps III have said five minutes before. I'm sure I have nothing to do with anyone leaving the website and I do not want to bicker with anyone and pretty much really haven't except with you and 1-2 others that are in concert with you.
Say your advice and...oh, yeah, regardless of anyone's PB,
it is up to the grower to decide whose advice they take but at the same time, if it makes sense and is feasible and immediate, then there they can go. eg

8/17/2023 6:02:15 PM

Colorado

Jeff the plants develop a huge root system as long as they have a large area of well amended soil to develop into.Theres been pumpkins grown over 1000 lbs in 150sq ft. But they had the full 150sq ft as a root zone.They gather momentum as they develop and need the proportionate rooting to prosper.To grow a true giant you have to rip out the landscaping and any large trees to give them what they like.If your not willing to go at this in a out of control way youre not gonna go big .Its a choice, your choice or yours and mrs. jeffs choice.

8/17/2023 8:53:34 PM

New Castle, Indiana

For what it's worth, I've been using MG and it has not posed a problem for my plants. Whether it is as effective as other forms or fertilizer....well I don't have enough experience to make that determination.

8/17/2023 9:49:46 PM

Grittyville, WA

I am liking the ability to apply individual micronutrients, but thats a bit advanced... the blue fertilizer is better than nothing... Its a good place to start. Unfortunately it is not the only solution to aborts, and in some cases the I think adding the wrong form of nitrogen could even exacerbate aborts. Plenty of good advice here, but mixed in with some head butting.

8/17/2023 10:43:58 PM

Portland, Oregon

Dang, this is a lot of great information! Thank you. I've reviewed it closely, followed up on some of these tips in related threads, and talked to some local growers. While I acknowledge that there a couple of outliers (i.e., malcontents), the overwhelming consensus is that you can pretty much ignore soil, watering, and genetics so long as you hose it down with 1:1 ratio Miracle Gro on an hourly basis. It's really not that complicated.

8/18/2023 11:48:29 PM

Syracuse, NY

Is that you, Jeff in Portland?
You're not yourself when you're hungry.
I am wary of your takeaways from my advisements.

Miracle-Gro is faithfully my tactic to straighten around your/my plants quickly and have it getting at least SOMETHING rather than just straight water and thinking that that's all that can be done.

When I first saw your plant, I felt that it looked like one of mine that needed a watering with it and recommended thusly.

Plus, you were using it already.

Rare.

You will perhaps find that there is a pattern involved in the fertilizers' numbers as the season is to progress.

MG does not make a fert that is appropriate for beyond fruit set and swelling up until weighoff day, that I know of, anyway.

If they DO, then, next year!

Else, it will be as I typed above several days ago and certainly not at
'1:1' unless you mean to do what I actually said, *carefully*-read.

Also, not hourly.

Like 'What the heck?'

Entire plant, soaked as much as possible, let's now say 2 times a week, 1 TBSP./gal, since your plant didn't look SO bad and you have what appears to be a lot of your vines buried, so, if your plant gets too big a boost, that shiny pumpkin is in the hot seat...and just try to not use 24-8-16;

When your fruit gets to beachball size, do inquire of others about what to do then as well.
If what you've been doing so far has been successful, then, all the better!

The end result here has been an outpouring of great advice from ALL parties present and I hope my own input will help you as well.

Please don't disregard nor forget ANY of it. It'll all be a good reference.

eg

8/19/2023 1:39:15 AM

Grittyville, WA

I think we overwhelmed you Jeff! The miracle grow vs pre season Langley soil balancing thing is like the Hatfield's and the McCoys... old grudges there & you got caught in the crossfire... Not fun.

8/19/2023 8:53:50 AM

Grittyville, WA

The PGVG guys & gals around you are all top notch & friendly people. If you go to the weigh offs you'll meet real folks who are at ALL levels of growing, from the best in the world to people like me who aren't! Which is why this is such a mind-bendingly amazing hobby.

As for here on bp though, it seems these unfriendly & petty conflicts may never end.

8/19/2023 9:35:12 AM

Portland, Oregon

Hey pumpkingpal2 - My post was made purely in jest and was not intended to single you or anyone else out. I'm sorry if you felt that way. It was meant as satire and stated views that no one is taking. I couldn't find a smiley or winking emoji when I posted it. Cheers to all.

8/19/2023 6:40:11 PM

Syracuse, NY

PumpKingPal2 - maybe in a few years, lol, or as a gas station;
My emoji is 'lol', you'll note and it's intended to smooth things over that otherwise might be misconstrued, as you say.
Likewise, I should have said 'Yeah, you go for it!' (lol).
Next thing you know you've got a blood-orange 629# with no splits, lol.
I didn't feel singled out butt could not allow my advice to have messed you up,
you see. Use any comedy with caution, lol.
Lettuce no how your season progresses.
Oh, wait - (*_*) Sort-of mine.
eg

8/20/2023 2:13:20 AM

Portland, Oregon

I thought I'd check back in. I still do have a viable pumpkin. It isn't huge, and is only putting on about 5 pounds/day, but I'm hopeful that it will approach 300 pounds. Today was the first day I noticed powdery mildew. I doused it with neem oil. Thanks again for the help.

9/5/2023 8:26:09 PM