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Garner, NC

From what I have heard here on the board, is that the grafted melons have great vigor, produce more melons, diease tolerant, and grow better early during cooler weather. That sounds great for farmers, but how is it going to help us grow bigger melons, other than a healtier plants. I really dont care who grows them, and if huge melons are grown with them, I will fall right in line next year. However my question is, if they are better early with cooler weather, how do they grow when temps get hot, to me thats the most important time(when the melon is growing). Also if they are for the farmers, they want to grow them fast and harvest, so are the grafted plants going to withstand a LONG growing season with a Hot growing season at the end. Seems to me if they grow great in cooler weather, they may suffer during the hot summer months. Just some questions, maybe someone can explain. Thanks

3/19/2012 11:15:18 AM

Muddy Waters

Great points

3/19/2012 11:43:11 AM

Alabama

Hey Todd, lots of valid points, too many questions for me about the gene interaction/ compatibility. I graft peach and pecan trees for my orchard and the wrong combination of scion and rootstock and the result is a crappy tree. I will let TD be the guinea pig on this one.

3/19/2012 12:21:55 PM

Jamul

I bet there is an "Achilles heel" situation. Possibly one of the points you mention, Todd. Time will tell. Good thinking on your part, either way.

3/19/2012 3:22:34 PM

formerly RGG

I am brand new at this and can only tell you that I have heard this rootstock is supposed to be a little better than the original rootstock under all conditions. We will know a lot more in a few months I suppose. Todd, I would also be hesitant to change much of what I was already doing if I grew the largest melon in the country last year. I do realize this could be a total flop for me. But a lot of thought, time, energy and money has gone into developing this rootstock and many farmers in other countries have had great success with it. Otherwise they would not have gone to the extra expense year after year. It has actually been proven that you will have a hardier watermelon plant if you just cut it in two while it is a seedling and graft it back to itself. This provokes a response in the plant that improves it.

3/19/2012 5:17:32 PM

Bowdon, GA

I just can't understand grafting big plants to little rootstocks. Do the roots grow as large as regular cc roots?

3/19/2012 11:40:42 PM

Valencia Spain

i reckoon jake is right, in spain watermelons are grafted but they are not cc

they are normal eating 20 kilo melons max

and thats to beat fusarium disease

3/20/2012 4:16:34 AM

Bowdon, GA

Still no answer?

3/21/2012 4:42:26 PM

Piqua, Ohio

what about grafting to an AG rootstock? I have thought about trying a few after reading these posts, I just want to compare them to my regular plants.

3/21/2012 7:45:14 PM

formerly RGG

Jake, I can only tell you I am thrilled with the results I have seen so far. The small plants already had roots rounding the sides of the pots when I transplanted them and they were also growing roots out of the stems which motivated me to plant them deep to accommodate the new root growth. These are also by far the fastest growing watermelon plants I have ever seen.

3/21/2012 8:41:22 PM

formerly RGG

Sidney, I believe AG could be grafted to this rootstock. Nathan needs to answer this question for you and he is on vacation right now and is unable to respond until later.

3/21/2012 8:44:00 PM

Garner, NC

No offense to Nathan, but has he ever grown a melon, or he just a grafter. And wouldn't it make since to graft to a root stock that was bigger, and grew well in hot weather. Maybe pigweed would be a good stock, lol

3/21/2012 8:57:28 PM

formerly RGG

Hey Jake, where did you get the idea that it is a little rootstock ? So far it seems to me that the rootstocks are outgrowing the tops.

3/21/2012 8:59:20 PM

formerly RGG

Todd, check out his diary please and your question will be answered.

3/21/2012 10:08:06 PM

Bowdon, GA

Thats what I'm asking, I didn't know there were any melons with larger anything than cc's. Not trying to tear down grafting, just have some questions.

3/21/2012 10:35:45 PM

Bowdon, GA

Melons I believe there were some people grafting lopes to AGs last year. Maybe they can tell us how they compared to other plants.

3/21/2012 10:37:30 PM

Waynesboro, Virginia

Yes, I grafted lopes to AG rootstock.They grew well and produced many healthy melons.I believe though that the rootstock never had a chance to fully grow because of the time frame difference.The lopes mature much faster than the rootstock.So...I think AG rootstock might be better suited for watermelons.The time frame of the 2 plants is more similar.I have a few of them grafted here now, kinda just playing around.

3/22/2012 12:57:25 PM

sevierville, Tn

hey, i vote for the pigweed rootstock !!!

3/22/2012 3:49:06 PM

The North Coast

By far I am not a watermelon grower. I enjoy pursuing gardening in general. My only CC to make it to the scales was grafted to C.ficifolia and was planted late and harvested early. It got very little love during the year and was a bit of a hands off experiment for the rootstock.

My opinion on AG as a rootstock is that it is just not proven. Who really knows? What we do know is that AG is not a rootstock used by any commercial farmer. It may be like a great racing horse who can out run anyone in perfect conditions but if the track was muddy at all, he was easily surpassed.

The rootstock used is not a watermelon at all but a squash. You can graft most any vine to any vine (with in reason). On this rootstock, the cots are about 4x the size of the watermelon cots and the stem is about 3x as thick. When transplanting rootstocks and watermelons of the same age, the squash rootstocks have about 5x the root mass.

@ West of the blue ridge...If you want a handfull of rootstock seeds let me know.

3/22/2012 5:05:39 PM

Bowdon, GA

Thank you Nathan that was the answer I was looking for. WOTBR did the stump/root size mimic the vine/plant size?

3/22/2012 6:40:42 PM

Waynesboro, Virginia

Holloway....The stump was much larger than the vine size of the lopes, but like I said....I never think the stump actually reached it's real potential because the lopes would ripen too fast and the plant was finished.I think you need 2 plants of 120 day duration like AG's and watermelons.

3/22/2012 6:52:14 PM

Bowdon, GA

Interesting lets know how they turn out, Mine would probably just get SVB LOL!

3/22/2012 8:00:20 PM

The North Coast

The rootstock, as it grows with the scion, will always be larger than the vine it feeds. The rootstock may be an inch in girth, while the scion's vine may only be a 1/2" to 3/4" for example.

3/23/2012 8:47:01 AM

sevierville, Tn

Jake, thats something grafters may have to watch for. SVB's don't bother melons, but with squash roots they may love the stump.....and maybe the whole plant !

3/23/2012 3:53:43 PM

Jamul

Dennis, Is it official that your grafted melons will be accepted at weigh-offs, even if you win?
Good luck to you. How about for the great white contest?

3/25/2012 11:22:19 PM

Menomonie, WI (mail@gr8pumpkin.net)

A watermelon is a watermelon if it is grafted or not. How an the world would you try proving it was grafted..if I did not admit it.

3/26/2012 5:43:14 AM

Ontario

So you would lie to win money?? Wow... I would not trade my honesty for a few bucks or a Guinness certificate!! There is no place for grafted plants in competition fruit growing!! Grow from seed and play on a level playing field. I personally hope all the grafted plants out there bomb drastically and you completely waste your year!! And I as I stated before I will not be buying GWG seeds next year because of the liars not admitting they are growing grafted plants!!

3/26/2012 7:53:53 AM

formerly RGG

Wow Mailey. Just wow.

3/26/2012 8:15:48 AM

formerly RGG

BTW, there is a place for grafted melons. If you doubt it, then just wait and see. They will never be banned. Get with the future man. :o)

3/26/2012 8:17:59 AM

The North Coast

I really dont believe that any of the growers would lie just to make their melon appear to have a higher genetic potential. It would be a real hard lie to pull off too. We want to grow the biggest melon possible, achieve something note worthy, not be proven to be a liar to our fellow growers.

3/26/2012 8:27:12 AM

Ontario

Wow what Masterson?? I have an opinion?? Yes I do... and yes as I have stated...there is a place for grafted melons...with the commercial growers, who are trying to improve their yields and ultimately there living!! Never be banned?? Are you a fortune teller as well as a dreamer?? And if they do become banned...will you be a liar??

3/26/2012 8:30:46 AM

Linden, Mi.,

BPMailey, I agree with that, all but, buying GWG seeds, as I believe most growers would tell the truth

3/26/2012 11:24:38 AM

Ontario

Agreed tallcorn.... I believe most will tell the truth... and if they are up front and honest about growing grafted plants then I'm good with that. I just personally do not want to grow seeds from melons that have been grafted onto squash roots or whatever other root. If growers who are growing grafted plants step up and let us know, then we have the option of not growing that seed. I have read several posts where dishonesty may creep in and that is the part that I strongly disagree with. All we have as growers is our honesty when it comes to seeds and I would hate to see that be sold off for prize money IF and I say IF there were a ban on melons from grafted plants competing with melons off plants grown from seed. When I read stuff about growers possibly not disclosing that a melon was grown off a grafted plant to win.....that's when I get my back up and have to speak up. Like it or not, that's my opinion, and all of you other growers have yours.... which we are all entitled to!!

3/26/2012 12:20:54 PM

Jamul

Dennis, I would just hate to see a ban on grafted plants happen somewhere between now and when you go to a weigh-off,especially if you grow a big melon. So, what I am getting at is: How do you know that is not going to happen?

3/26/2012 12:42:30 PM

Linden, Mi.,

BPMailey, Yes, I refuse to let money to get in the way of the fun of growing. We all know the money it takes to grow, knowing that we will never get it back, as for me and I know many other growers, grow for the fun of it and the to see just what we can do (how big we can get the fruit).

As for me, no I will never grow a grafted seed.

3/26/2012 1:12:26 PM

formerly RGG

Mailey, as far as I know the GWG is not even considering a ban. And there has been no talk that I am aware of by the GPC to ban grafted plants. My opinion is that grafts are very common and they are widely used throughout the world. Every time I eat an apple or a nut it is probably from a grafted plant. As much as it would seem to please you; no I will never lie about growing grafted plants. And you may get your wish. My season may be a bust. My last two seasons certainly have been. And this is somewhat experimental you know. As far as I have been able to determine, Nathan Okorn is the only person to have previously grown a grafted Carolina Cross and he did not have spectacular results or even win first place. Grafting is not proven technology for growing giant watermelons. It may have an Achilles heel.Rustico, since the season has already begun,I don't think any organization would make a change until the end of the season. And since no unfair advantage has yet been seen, I don't think there will much discussion about the matter unless these plants produce some awesome results.

3/26/2012 5:53:46 PM

Piqua, Ohio

How can they ban grafts? Would someone go to every patch to verify it's not?

3/26/2012 8:10:06 PM

formerly RGG

Thank you melons !

3/26/2012 8:14:08 PM

El Paso TX.

I don't see how they could ever ban grafting - and if they did what next ban greenhouse grown melons, heating cables, hoop houses, fertilizers, chemicals, etc. etc. -- figure growers are going to do what they think will get them the best results and as far as I am concerned the weight on the scale is the only thing that matters.

Though I do agree with BP that it should be information that is shared if done, as it could make a difference on what results future generations of melons achieve using seeds from a grafted melon.

3/26/2012 11:16:03 PM

Ontario

That's all I'm asking for JD, no secrecy!! If you want to try this grafting...go for it. Just let the melon community the melon you grew came from a grafted plant so those who want nothing to do with this grafting can stay away from that seed....that's all.

And Dennis, I do not wish any bad luck on you, I do apologize and wish there was an edit feature on this board like we have on the GVGO. Sometimes things are typed and entered and before you know it you realize you have said something in haste you regret, which is case with that statement....I'm sorry. I am actually with the other growers who are urging you to not put all your eggs in one basket, and would like to see you to grow a few plants from seed.

Even if 300 pounders are grown from grafts... I am one who will not be joining this kind of growing. No problem with grapes and apples and farmers trying to increase yeilds.... I just see no place for it in competition fruit growing.

3/27/2012 7:40:05 AM

formerly RGG

I really don't know if there are going to be any secret growers BP. Chris has already stated he might be interested and the other 2 officers have no interest, I think. I have no idea why anyone would be interested in keeping grafted plants a secret. We have always been a community growers helping out our fellow growers.As far as I know, grafted plants grow the same size fruit as a healthy non grafted plant.I am not sure if there will be any advantage at all. And most growers realize this and with the possibility that there may be a drawback of some kind, most growers are sitting back and waiting to see how well the experimenters do before they commit to this evolving technique.

3/27/2012 7:25:23 PM

Piqua, Ohio

From what I understand a grafted plant doesn't mean a bigger melon, just more vigorus plant, which a healthier plant will produce bigger melons. I'm not for or against grafting, but I have some that I grafted just to see a side by side comparison. Grafted or not the genetics are where it's at,if they're crap that's what you'll get. I've talked to some AG growers who have grafted two 20X35 plants together on the main vine, some say it works, but for some it was a waist. Time will tell. Good Luck Everyone

3/27/2012 8:28:06 PM

Muddy Waters

Yes I agree with Bryan if its grafted it should be public knowledge.Just like if somebody has a sex change,we all should know about it.lol If you get your root changed it shouldn't be a secret.lol All kidding aside it should be told.

3/27/2012 8:38:30 PM

formerly RGG

Oh, and thanks for the apology BP, it takes a good person to do that when it is appropriate. I couldn't have said it better Mark. We don't need to be keeping secrets from each other.

3/27/2012 9:31:46 PM

Trinity River Bottom

All I can say is everyone wants to grow the largest melon possible,so if the grafting shows alot of promise .. There will be a bunch of growers doing it.. Its the name of the game . time will tell if it increase the size of our melons.

4/9/2012 8:33:47 AM

formerly RGG

Amen Kirk.

4/9/2012 9:52:54 PM