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Omaha, NE (N41-15-42 )

Anyone notice that the Blanton seed collection went for $1209 on eBay last night?

12/5/2004 12:02:29 PM

[email protected]

Now that was a steal, considering I paid $400.00 for a 723
But the money I spent last night was for a good cause and it helps support the club. This is the start of many of these unsolicited auctions I would think. I guess you could say the auction was the seed of change.
Eddy

12/5/2004 12:27:28 PM

Western Pa.

It's a shame that a relatively affordable hobby has now fallen victim to commercialism. What may be perfectly legal, I consider, is still a slap in the face to Howard Dill and family, and all the respect they should be due.

12/5/2004 2:03:55 PM

Long Island,New York

To me it looks like a compliment that Howards creation is thought to be great enough to spend that much. ....G

12/5/2004 2:10:45 PM

Garden

Consider that just because the bidding went that high, it doesnt mean the auction was a success. Not until the money is in his bank account. It wouldnt surprise me if this lot is sold to a lower bidder, or even re-listed.

12/5/2004 3:44:00 PM

Litchfield N. H. 03052

thing about it, with the prices of the PGVG auction, the person on ebay got a bargain.

12/5/2004 3:58:54 PM

Roanoke Il

I feel sorry for the person that pays 1209 for a seed collection.. the poor grower has the jack and the bean stalk mentalty.. waste of 100's of dollars that could be used for patch amendments extra.. A heavy hitter doesn't need a proven seed to grow a world record why because he or she has the skill exprence soil ect if you look back at the seeds that grew the world record in the past haven't been proven seeds untill that grower grew them that year or the year before.. everyone jumping on a band wagon growing only proven seeds paying high prices when the money could be used where it is need most is in the soil insecticides fungicides may be even a tractor.. thats where the money is more wizely spent. Eddy has a good point supporting a club and you have tons of money to throw at this hobby the heck spend 400 dollars for a seed that might not even germinate lol

12/5/2004 6:40:55 PM

Waquoit Mass

this hobby/ sport keeps hitting all time lows and highs . goes with the teritory i guess

12/5/2004 6:46:51 PM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

I fail to see how giant pumpkin growing can really fall victim to commercialism. As popular as early adopters feel that it is getting, I imagine that most people in the world still have no interest in growing giant pumpkins. When you add the fact that some pumpkins can produce upwards of 600 seeds each, it looks to me as if there is so much more supply than demand.

Just like you can't judge the commercialization of a hobby like golf by how many people own the top of the line clubs, I don't think you can judge giant pumpkin growing by how many people can afford to own seeds with top quality genetics. Most participants in any hobby are somewhere in the middle, aren't they? Besides, like "mark p" says, genetics are only part of the story. Most growers probably don't have the skill or budget to grow a record breaker no matter who's pumpkin their seeds came from. I know I don't.

12/5/2004 7:30:53 PM

[email protected]

Commercialism has always been here. Howard sought & was granted a patent for that very reason. Color rules have been debated under the auspices that "sponsors" want all orange pumpkins & their revenue pays for weigh-offs. Indeed our association is having a seed auction so that we may do such things as award prizes for heaviest fruit, etc.

I wouldn't be surprised to learn that a "Heavy" didn't buy that eBay lot. We'll probably find out sooner or later.

This is only the first retiring grower to sell a nice collection. I am certain it won't be the last. But like all things, the value of a collection will seek its own level in value in time.

Maybe the next chapter in our sports history should be the "Blue Book" of seed auction results so we can place reasonable values on seeds. Imagine the look on your insurance agents face when you tell him a $500 Pumpkin seed was eaten by your family Parrot?

12/5/2004 8:57:40 PM

Ontario

I still think a educated grower would not buy seeds of questionable sources when we freely swap seeds every year. I don't think this will be as common as everyone thinks. 1200 bucks for that collection maybe a bargain to some growers but I think with as many good seeds as there are today, that was a stupid price to pay.

drew

12/5/2004 9:05:43 PM

Webster, NY

I can't add more than what as already been said. I think Drew is right. No need to pay that much, when generally asking the grower for a good seed will get you one. All you have to do is be polite and honest. Hopefully this is just a one time thing.

12/5/2004 9:24:35 PM

[email protected]

Don't misunderstand my position here. I won't be paying for seeds unless it is through a credible club sponsored auction. But with the number of viable 723s left, I suppose in this case (where the seller is of known integrity & his seeds are verifiable), I can see where someone else might be sold on the idea.

12/5/2004 9:58:43 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

I don't have a problem someone selling their collection...."don't judge, lest ye be judged"
But I agree with Drew, there's so many outstanding seed out there today, most all of the newer stuff, that's a relatively wise cross, have a very good chance of growing 1000#+.
Too many new, free seed with more potential than the older stuff.

12/6/2004 6:53:18 AM

Long Island,New York

There is a segment of the hobby that aren't represented in this forum, in chat, at the seminars or on the computer at all. There are those who don't have time or the inclination to send bubbles and ask for something for nothing. If you win a grand at a wieghoff, whats 300 bucks on a proven monster seed to get you back in the winner's circle for next year? If its really a hobby to ya'll like you say it is then if you win money and manure is usually free whats 400 for the best seed as a start for next year? You went into the wieghoff expecting nothing.....why not go into the new year with no money and the best seeds?
There's a tremendous thrill to growing a great seed....and they are not always available when you want them. There's other results to compare to, there's other growers doing the same seed to compare to...theres the side thrills of seeing who does best with the same seed....there's nothing worse than growing a new seed that eventually is found to be a loser. Some can cut the odds by growing 12 plants and some need to cut the odds by growing proven seeds.
A new Big Bertha driver is 500 bucks...a new rack of lights on the jeep is 300 bucks..a concert ticket goes over 100 these days....some chose a couple pkns seeds instead...no biggie........G

12/6/2004 10:38:13 AM

[email protected]

Good points Glenn. Every hobby I've ever engaged in has ended up containing an element of high cost extremes.

Just look to the television for extreme everyhting imaginable. From cars to sports & cigars to wine we are a nation of extreme loving aficiandos of just about anything.

And at the highest level of every sport exists an artisan crafter who is more than willing to build the strongest, lightest, fastest, most tencically advanced gizmo & sell it to you (usually for an etxreme price).

Gold clubs are like this. For the average hack, a Big Bertha is only going to drive his ball another 20-40 feet into the rough.

But at the highest competitive level of every sport or hobby, there comes a time when skill alone is nearly matched or the stakes just too high for our ego. At this point, the newest gizmo available makes the sport or hobby more enjoyable & might make the owner just that tiny bit more competitive. And CHA-CHING!!!

Another GIZMO $ALE! is made.

12/6/2004 12:27:53 PM

Alaska

Your exactly right!! Skill level should be a consideration when trying to decide what one is willing to pay for seeds. If money is an issue? Growing giant pumpkins and COMPETING is no longer just a hobby. When prize money is offered it's a World Class Professional Event!! The beauty of these OP plants is no one has a lock on parent lines, you can create your own master piece with some time and effort. Spudley.

12/6/2004 1:00:36 PM

Joliet, IL

racehorse owners pay top value for stud services
of proven genetics. chances are good genetics = a better
chance off crossing the finsish line faster than
horses with a lesser genetic background. if all
the seeds are legit, i see nothing wrong with someone
spending 1200 for that collection. now that the seeds
are legally right for selling, i see nothing morally
wrong with the purchase. a good set of golf clubs cost
that price, but maybe the purchaser doesn't golf.
and golf enthusiests will spend over 1200 a season in
greenfees. if you have the extra cash that you worked
hard for and are willing to use it for the enjoyment of
a hobby, so be it. boating, snowmobiling, watercraft,
fishing are all hobbies that people spend big cash on.

i know many don't like the yankees because georgie
has big pockets, but it seems that they are always at least
in the hunt come october. would i pay 1200 for that seed
collection? no. did i pay 200 bucks a piece for 4 sturdy
6'x10' greenhouses that will be up for only 2 months
of the year? yes. did i pay 400 bucks for a shade
cloth to have on back up for hail and 100+ degree temps
and may possibly never get stretched over the patch if
not needed? yes. let alone the 20 4x4 posts, the 1/4"
galvanized steel rope that supports it.

and if i added up all the time i spent in the patch and
multiplied by only the minimum wage salary for time that
could have been spent elsewhere earning a buck, i would
have an additional 3 grand in hand.

if you are not depriving your children of food on their
plates and not going into debt because of the money
spent on a hobby, then i see nothing wrong spending
money on something that makes you happy and you enjoy.

someday i would love to have an extra 10 grand and try
my luck at the world series of poker texas hold em',
knowing damn well i could lose it all in less than
15 minutes.

God bless America

12/7/2004 9:42:34 AM

Itzetown City

Is´nt Pumpkin Growing like poker?

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=12447

12/7/2004 11:00:48 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Shazzy,
Never add up all the time you spend in the patch and multiply it by the minimum wage it will give you nightmares.

12/7/2004 11:01:25 AM

Roanoke Il

Its albout if we want to keep this hobby of ours at a higher level. Money will ruin it for sure just like it ruins everything else.. When i first started growing you traded for seeds with other growers you made contacts you payed your dues sorta speak.. It was proably the purest thing I've ever been involved with..now its about the money wow..it was never about the money for me i could make a hole hell of alot of money doing something else other than growing big pumpkins.Its about pride bragging rights friendships, a bunch of grower getting together on a saturday in oct admiring each others hard work and efforts..is that wrong wow.. anyone from any class in our society and educational background race greed ect could enjoy our hobby and do well at it get his or hers mug in the news paper or even on tv for there 15 minutes of fame...when you make this a money sport all that changes.. grower x doesn't give his seeds away, grower x is a knows how to gentnecly alter his seed pulls a way from the crowd. charges 400 dollors a seed know there is only a few that can afford to grow the bigger the prizes money the more the seed cost ect.. this will make this sport a rich mans sport.. look at all the pro sports see what money has done for them has it made baseball better , football, look at boxing twenty years ago i could have told you who had the heavy weight title not today pay perveiw..
Maybe I'm just old school if I can't change with the rest i will be left out guess..In the past I've given proven seeds away to new growers or traded down so they could get them. So alot of the money growers must think i'm a fool.. now i'm rambling .. Am I wrong ..mark

12/7/2004 6:32:38 PM

Western Pa.

mark p,

Us poor guys think you're right on the money!

12/7/2004 7:13:00 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

gotta a valid point(s) there Mark p

12/7/2004 7:48:03 PM

Alaska

I'm sorry Mark P. I don't see it that way. I think the biggest limiting factor here is the growers ability. Bare with me, please. The Alaska State Fair started a giant cabbage weigh off contest back in 1941. The majority of the contestants grow the OS Cross hybrid variety. It was bred for certain traits and those traits are locked in. A very uniform cabbage variety. So with that said if I can grow one to 70 pounds then so can you, right? Not the case at all. I watch year in and year out the same people seeminly stuck on 50 pounds or 60 pounds never moving up in weight. Those that do stay there. Why, it's not the genetics everyone growing that variety starts on a level playing field. It's because they have become better at growing them. Better plant care, more experience.
That's why I think open pollinated plants like these giant pumpkins are a gold mine. If you work at it long enough put in the time and effort who knows 2000 pounds. There is enough free genetic firepower out there to do it. Those that seem to always finish on top are not just lucky or have the better seed. They have nurtured an ability. They deserve what ever they can get for their seeds. Spudley

12/7/2004 10:03:55 PM

Puyallup, WA

Will money wreck our sport.....you bet it will! I doubt that we will be an exception to the rule. The Good Book tells us, "The love of money is the root of all evil."
1 Timothy 6:10 Already this year there have been problems mention regarding trading. Brent Richey attempted to resolve this problem last year. I have not heard if he will restart his program this off season. For several years, I have advocated that seed sales and trades be governed by the individual clubs. With the end of the Dill PVP, it seems that unless someone grabs seed sales "by the horns" only those will excess dollars will be able to afford the "coveted seeds".

12/7/2004 10:16:29 PM

Brillion Wisconsin

$1209.00 for seeds off of ebay...SO BE IT. I really doubt that this person will blow everyone away at the weigh-offs in 2005 by planting his awesome ebay seeds.

What would you think of a guy who spends $1200.00 on soil improvements and another $1200.00 on providing the ideal micro-climate around his plants. $1200 for a good irrigation system would be nice too. Is this perosn being unfair or ruining the sport...I think not!

Anyway, this sport/hobby has grown tremendously and is definatley getting more and more competitive. Everyone wants to out do each other and try to grow their pumpkins bigger and better than the next guy. There is nothing wrong with this and it adds to the challenge and excitement. Getting them to their to their maximum size is whats its all about.

If someone wants to spend hundreds or thousands of dollars on seeds, let them.

12/7/2004 11:07:56 PM

Streator ,Illinois

Mark , then this sport is ruined, money has come in to play in a big way, just look at the prize money that can be won, if you are going grow these pumpkins for a weigh off that has big bucks then this is a sport and sports cost money ,its all where you choise to put your money and how much one can afford.
People just don't travel to 4 or 5 weigh offs a year for a hobby they are there for competition ( sport )
The Hobby comes in when you travel 40 min. one way to enter a county fair that cost you 10 bucks to enter and you win first place that pays 8 bucks and a nice blue ribbon, that is a hobby.
I have chosen this sport/hobby for the last 6 years learning mostly and planting unproven seeds and getting my soil up to snuff, I don't know any true heavey hitters and probbly never will, so I am going to pay to get quality seeds, my choise. I don't have 400 bucks but I did have 110 to spend. I will choise not to worry about how much someone can spend on seeds or who is selling them. I will spend my time in my patch and keep this a Hobby/Sport for me. I do not think you are a fool it is your opinon but sounds like you must choise it to be a sport or just a hobby. This is just my nickels worth

12/7/2004 11:29:29 PM

Streator ,Illinois

Mark , then this sport is ruined, money has come in to play in a big way, just look at the prize money that can be won, if you are going grow these pumpkins for a weigh off that has big bucks then this is a sport and sports cost money ,its all where you choise to put your money and how much one can afford.
People just don't travel to 4 or 5 weigh offs a year for a hobby they are there for competition ( sport )
The Hobby comes in when you travel 40 min. one way to enter a county fair that cost you 10 bucks to enter and you win first place that pays 8 bucks and a nice blue ribbon, that is a hobby.
I have chosen this sport/hobby for the last 6 years learning mostly and planting unproven seeds and getting my soil up to snuff, I don't know any true heavey hitters and probbly never will, so I am going to pay to get quality seeds, my choise. I don't have 400 bucks but I did have 110 to spend. I will choise not to worry about how much someone can spend on seeds or who is selling them. I will spend my time in my patch and keep this a Hobby/Sport for me. I do not think you are a fool it is your opinon but sounds like you must choise it to be a sport or just a hobby. This is just my nickels worth

12/7/2004 11:29:29 PM

[email protected]

My 2 cents
Ok, $1,208.00 for 700 plus seeds. Simple math breaks that down to $1.73 each. The price of a Bubble pack, let's say for easy math is 40 cents, the price of the manila envelope is 25 cents. Postage to and from, $1.50
This totals $2.15 cents.
So really, it's not that crazy. it costs me $1,500.00 to go to the Niagara seminar without considering the 2 days of work I miss, and I've gone 2 years in a row and will go again this year.
This is speaking in terms of monitary value.
I think the biggest deterent to the whole situation is the fact that somebody sold seeds for money, and somebody bought seeds for money without the permission of the Dills. This is the only major stumbling block.
If Howard and Danny Dill knew about this auction and said fine, would these posts be here. I believe we would all be wishing we had bought it, I know I would.
Also if permission had been granted, the price would have probably tripled, without question. So the Pumpkin society, if we want to call it that, needs to maintain it's stance on swapping seeds and supporting society blessed auctions. I believe it's as simple as that.
The black market sales have been around for a long time, and will always be around. How many $50.00, $100.00 transactions happen in this sport without anybody knowing, I'll bet the numbers are huge.
It wasn't too long ago when another collection was on Ebay. It was pulled because of legalities, but the seller had bought it and all he wanted to do is recoupe his costs.
As far as money wrecking the sport, it probably did the first time a pumpkin was classed as a squash. But that's a different story.
Eddy

12/8/2004 12:15:32 AM

Puyallup, WA

Now you've really "stepped in it", Eddy!!

12/8/2004 12:50:36 AM

[email protected]

I know but sometimes a bit of humor helps
Eddy

12/8/2004 12:57:14 AM

[email protected]

Free seeds will never ever ever go away. But to suggest that money is going to spoil the sport is absurd. If this were true, all was lost over a century ago.

_________see the clip_____________________________________

In the fall of 1903, a gardener, William Warnock, grew the biggest pumpkin the world had ever seen. It weighed 183 kg. The record stood for 75 years, until Howard Dill, with an obsession for gigantic pumpkins, produced one weighing 199 kg.

Since 1979, Dill has marketed his seeds to other gardeners and helped start a craze that has grown along with the size of pumpkins. Dill has become a millionaire by selling his pumpkin seeds.

Each successive autumn over the past two decades, records have tumbled as pumpkins grew to 272, 318, 363, 409 kg, and sights were set for the first 450 or 500 kg. This was almost realised in 1996 by Paula and Nathan Zehr who grew a pumpkin weighing 482 kg, about the weight of a large horse.

Champions can make a few thousand dollars in prize money from the very largest pumpkins. A California company buys the world champion at $ 4.5 a kg. We do not see such unusually large pumpkins in India.

http://www.tribuneindia.com/2000/20000403/agro.htm

______________clipped for length_________________________

Money has been hand in hand with Pumpkins since the very instant a Human Being learned he could eat it. Whether traded for fish, beads, skins, or green backs, that which can feed, entertain or decorate has some monetary &/or instrinsic equity value depending on nothing more than the buyers wealth.

12/8/2004 6:45:48 AM

Garden

The only concern I have with money coming into play, is that $ = greed = people willing to lie about a seeds origins. How do you authenticate a seeds genetic line? I guess the only way would be to obtain them either directly from the grower, or second hand from someone you truly trust. Third hand or even auction is where it would start to get shady. Eh, whatever

12/8/2004 12:08:51 PM

Greene R.I.

from the looks of the physiques i have seen at weigh offs calling this a sport is really pushing it. Lets stick with hobby.

12/8/2004 4:06:14 PM

Greene R.I.

from the looks of the physiques i have seen at weigh offs calling this a sport is really pushing it. Lets stick with hobby.

12/8/2004 4:06:23 PM

San Diego

Mr Green that's hilarious! hehehe

12/8/2004 6:22:36 PM

Roanoke Il

Steve you made some valid points your right we don't grow for the money there will be a higher lever like any other sport some growers will be exclude from this like other sports the sport will be ruined like other sports football baseball hockey ect but it will not prevent us true grower from growing for the love of the growing. Just like other sports a bunch of guys get together just to have fun play ball on the week end not for money. I am just use to our hobby only having one level but you could say it is involving like other sports do for the better I think not ... mark

12/8/2004 9:39:45 PM

Joliet, IL

the carlson petersen tag team has shown that with good
soil and very limited money spent on extries, it is
still possible to produce consistently. for all those
opposed to spending wasted dollars on this hobby, follow
their lead and prove the frugal can beat the frivolous.

that should be encouragement enough at every weigh off to
show that k.i.s.s. can win every time.

but that is your choice to make and honor anyone willing
to make a financial hit in the sake of this great sport
to try to improve his or hers chances to ultimately
lead to the same goal....growing a heavier pumpkin than
the next guy. healthy competition.

everyone will spend what ever they see fit for THEMSELVES
to accomplish this goal.

stan, the bible says that money is the root of all evil,
but how can anyone live in a capitalistic society and
truly believe that. isn't that an oxymoron.

greed is a problem, spending cash how you see fit is not.

12/8/2004 11:41:12 PM

Puyallup, WA

Hi shazzy,
Remember, it says that it is the "love of money"....not money itself that is the root of evil! You could also say that it is greediness that causes the problems.
I like to help the new clubs out, so I bid on a couple of lots tonight. I won Lot 2...just might try Bob Demers
seed next Spring.

12/9/2004 12:38:53 AM

[email protected]

The 114.75" McGregor '04 World record long gourd was grown with no special input at all. Mrs. McGregor sent me pictures of this monster. When it gave no indication it was slowing down, Mr. McGregor dug a hole under the thing. So a 114.75" Gourd was grown on a standard 8 foot trellis that they've grown on forever. No new expense but the labor to dig the hole.

Our best resources are free. Luck, hard work & each other.

When moneybags eBay warrior shows up with a bigger fruit, then we can eat crow. LOL Otherwise, nothing has changed.

12/9/2004 9:20:31 AM

[email protected]

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&category=1512&item=4342495316&rd=1#ebayphotohosting

12/9/2004 9:26:10 AM

Salt Lake City, UT

Does anybody have the URL from the sale of the 700 seeds? What seeds were included? It makes me giggle that our goofy little hobby could attract those kind of dollars. I think it is exciting!

If we were living in Communist Russia would we even have had the opportunity to have this debate or the freedom to move about and weigh and gawk at our favorite orange fruit? I would use caution when criticizing free and legal commerce. Tremendous freedoms have been accrued to us and our families for generations because of these rights. They were brought to us by the tremendous foresight of the founding fathers and great leaders since that time.

This hobbie is as addicting as anything I have done. Have you ever stopped to think that your spouse or you children could probably use an extra hour of your time after work rather than than burying that extra vine? My guess is that there are a lot of virtues we could spend more time worrying about as pumpkin growers than the price of legally sold seeds.

Good luck to rich and poor because we all need it if we are going to grow the big one!

12/11/2004 2:09:56 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

Amen, ValuePack.

12/11/2004 2:31:10 PM