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Joliet, IL

the more i have been researching reasons for splits,
i have found that both BORON and CALCIUM are essential
for the pectin strength for stable cell wall structure.
boron deficiencies can lead to weaking of the middle lamella
and cell wall rupture eventually leading to trouble.
also the translocation of both these elements is
reduced in cold temperatures.

does this mean that the cell walls that divided during
the growth stage of fast growing pumpkins in cold
weather produce weakened cell wall structures due to
a lack of boron and calcium reaching them at a critical
time of their formation, and eventually lead to possible
splits?

from this research i would hypothesize that the best way
to help prevent splits is to apply calcium and BORON
towel wraps to the pumpkins especially during cooler temps
when these elements have trouble moving through the
plant tissues, along with blanketing the pumpkins at night.
and would it be beneficial to place a 70 degree soil
heating cable under the styrofome the pumpkin sits on
to provide a heat source that will plugged in on cold
nights? the styrofome would insulate the pumpkin from
direct contact to the cable, and heat would work its
way up and under the blanket that is on the pumpkin.
this would allow the easy translocation of both boron
and calcium to the rapidly dividing cell walls, especially
at night when they do their most growing. basically
towel wrap in the day and blanket at night with the
heating cable plugged in.


has anyone ever tried both boron and calcium in their
wrap drenching? how about a ground heating cable under
the pumpkins.

anyone who knows something about boron and whether
towel wrapping with boron will help reduce splits,
please speak up.

joze, you out there?

10/18/2004 9:11:16 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Most Pumpkin growers have a very high amount of calcium and potassium in their soil. This in itself can lead to a deficiency of boron. Everything has to be well balanced I know to much boron is a bad thing. Boron itself is not held or absorbed by the soil. The best source for it is in the organic matter itself. The normal exceptable value is around 1 ppm. Anything over 5 ppm is toxic. I do not think a pumpkin soaked with a boron solution. Would be able to absorb or transfer it to the fruit like it does with calcium.

10/18/2004 10:22:55 PM

[email protected]

Agreed. Heavy liming of low organic soils can lead to Boron deficiency symptoms. But adding organic materials like we do, Boron supplements are rarely justified. Boron toxicity is more likely & dangerous.

AGs are Calcium & Potassium suckers.

10/18/2004 11:11:36 PM

Puyallup, WA

My Boron reading of 2.2 is considered "Very High". BTW...
it didn't seem to stop the splits either! :>(

10/19/2004 12:58:46 AM

Ontario, Canada.

The product I used, Calcimax contained Boron. Although It didn't help with my splitter I find this news encouraging. Shazzy can you email me some of the research links. Cold temps were the cause of my problems this summer. I always find this topic interesting.

10/19/2004 5:03:50 AM

Deer Park, WI

Shannon and Steve summed up the boron question pretty well, i agree with their comments. Regarding the heat to speed up translocation, this is a subject of debate.

I like the idea of a heating coil under the fruit to keep it warm, thats quite intuitive. However, i do believe nutrient translocation requires that the whole system be at optimal temperature, rather than just the sink.

Here's my lame analogy: I picture the situation like an experienced prostitute sucking on a freezing cold milkshake. Even tho she could suck a watermelon thru a lemon hole, she's gonna have a hell of a time getting that cold milkshake up the pipe. Warm up the hole system, and suddenly things start moving easier.

Even tho the pumpkin is warmed by the cables below, nutrient translocation at the source is still goverened by air temperature.

10/19/2004 8:53:32 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

ooohhh that is a bad analogy Joe

10/19/2004 9:11:32 AM

Sheridan . NY

The cal and boron is part of the GP program that the Agro-k has used through out the season for the past 5 years --the calcium has worked well this year for all the guys on the program--- we are spraying every day directly on the pumpkins- works much much better than the towels-- the towels wick a [est] of 60%of the calcum back up in to the towels or the cloths--works like a oil lamp wick---also a calcium with phosphite and copper has been used also altenating other day -- melon growers have been using have been using calcium for over 10 years spraying though out the growing season and dipping them before they go to market and after picking and see a 40% rise in storage and shelf life--- but the best news is there was 8 1st place pumpkins and 18 over 1000#s and more coming with help from AGRO-K-- havent got all totaled yet--calcium plays big part in any thing that grows growing-- www.candjfert.com
--

10/19/2004 9:17:09 AM

Wichita, KS

Joze
I know this has been suggested before for a different reason, but what if you wrapped up the entire plant with christmas lights? that would trap some heat under the leaves and warm the entire system a few degrees, which is all it really needs to keep it from any major overnight temp swing.

I know some folks have used christmas lights in the past in an attempt to extend the season, and maybe get a tiny bit more photosynthesis out of the plants. Have you christmas light users had splits or deflated fruit since you've been using the lights?

10/19/2004 9:57:51 AM

Puyallup, WA

...sucking a watermelon? Oh forget it.... ;>)

10/19/2004 1:46:44 PM

Long Island,New York

If I wrapped my pkn with Christmas lights my wife would split....................

10/19/2004 1:49:26 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

Yikes! G...

10/19/2004 5:15:29 PM

Cologne / Germany

When I wrap my wife with Christmas lights she always attracts far too many insects. We won´t do that again next season.

10/19/2004 6:19:14 PM

[email protected]

LMAO floh

10/19/2004 6:44:36 PM

Wichita, KS

I should have known where this was going to go... LOL :)

10/19/2004 7:20:24 PM

Leamington, Ont.

Now that was too funny floh!

10/19/2004 10:17:48 PM

Joliet, IL

lol at all these responses. thanks all for the input.
just trying to use my noodle brain here in the offseason
towards research. nice analogy joze, it made your
point crystal clear.

10/20/2004 8:14:43 AM

Deer Park, WI

Sprout-

I think the use of x-mas lights in the patch would have a few more negative aspects than positive. The most obvious being what G said. you may not have a significant other after pulling a stunt like that. Secondly, i dont think x-mas lights give off enough heat to make an ounce of difference. When it drops to 37 in august, the only thing thats gonna warm up the plant is a warm front.

Third, plants like to sleep too. Keep the lights on all night and you begin to disrupt the light-dark cycle. I beleive even the small amount of light given off by the x-mas lights would be enough to cause problems.

Lastly, It sickens me when businesses/residences pull out the x-mas gear before haloween. Just not right. (Please take note MR. John Menard, owner of Menards stores. You've replaced the gardening section of your stores with waving santas that want to make me puke)

10/20/2004 8:44:49 AM

Cologne / Germany

I thought the christmas lights idea was a joke for itself...it isn´t?...my christmas lights give so little heat not even able to melt snow falling onto them :)

And Joze is rigth - x-mas stuff in the middle of October sucks! But the shops don´t care, they already have it over here right now. On the other hand all barbecue stuff was removed though we still have nice sunny weather going up to 70 F this weekend. Perverted concepts!

10/20/2004 11:31:54 AM

I'm with Gordon... GO UTES!

LOL, I love the off-season!

10/20/2004 1:09:04 PM

Wichita, KS

All right.. it was just a thought. I never tried it, but I know that some people have and thought it would be worth mentioning. If you all think won't work, then there is probably a good chance that it won't. I wouldn't know about snow, Joze, because I never get any where I live. The worst we ever get is some frost in the winter on clear nights. to me, freezing cold is 40F. I can barely tolerate it! :)

From the perspective of a retail owner (I owned a retail business for 3 years and sold it a few months ago), I can say that retailers don't make money anymore unless they pull out the christmass gear in late September. This is why... There is too much retail in the USA. If one retailer pulls out the christmas gear early, people start pulling out their money for christmas early. People only have so much money for christmas... once its gone its gone. SO, if nobody thought about christmas until November 25, there would be no reason to bring out the gear until then. But retailers who bring out the gear early, get people thinking about christmas early, and people spend their money more compulsively. Then they don't have it. Thsi forces ALL retailers into a race to be the first to put out the christmas stuff... If they don't get it out first, their competitors get the majority of christmas loot that consumers are spending.

The uncomfortable reality is that the retailers have to do it or possibly lay off workers, and that sucks more than tolerating the sight of fake christmas trees in september. That's why I started marketing christmas products in september, and it worked beautifully.

10/20/2004 1:43:28 PM

Erlangen, Germany

Sprout,

I understand, if people are crazy enough to buy Christmas stuff already in September, the first retailer who has it on display wins.
So probably next year, the Christmas stuff will be out in August, then July... and if we wait long enough it will again be in December where it belongs.

10/20/2004 4:26:13 PM

Cologne / Germany

Right Marijn. "Summer selling off" in the middle of summer, the first winter collections in late August (concerning clothing). That´s insane. It´s not the idea of the customers, just what some bonehead sort of managers declare to be their "way of selling".

10/20/2004 4:54:41 PM

Wichita, KS

During the summer months, I would often make a display table doaded up with all my christmas overstock from the previous season, and mark it all down about 40%. At the end of the day, I would usually see a 5-15% increase in sales. There was no scientific way to say it was because the christmas table reminded customers to shop for christmas early, but I did get rid of stuff that was taking up space in my warehouse.

You know, I think I significantly contributed to pulling this thread away from its original topic: boron/calcium balances. Sorry about that. I am still interested in what people have to say about it. Aparently the Agro-k system has taken it into account. How many of the heavy hitters are using Agro-K, or are deliberately adjusting their boron levels in the soil?

10/20/2004 5:25:40 PM

Cologne / Germany

I remember some good reputation for AGRO-K from different posts here on BP earlier this season. Using the search function might help to find it.
Personally I would like to know if it´s available in Europe - maybe Craig Lem can chime in on this one again.

10/20/2004 5:46:29 PM