From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Erlangen, Germany

Hi everybody,

as a very minor pumpkin grower, I had much fun and got many new ideas from reading this great website. However, all the time I couldn't help wondering:

Has anyone ever tried growing giant pumpkins in a greenhouse?
(I mean a real one with glass walls on a metal frame.)

You would have no wind, no hail, higher temps, possible to add CO2 to the air etc. I see 2 further possibilities:

1) With some artificial heating at beginning and end of the season, you might start the seáson 1 month earlier and end it maybe 1 month later. 60 estra days of grwoing at a modest 10 lbs a day give 600 pounds more weight, which might get you from the present 1400 pound level to 2000 pound pumpkins. Imagine ONE TON of pumpkin!

2) The info about cloning tells me a pumpkin plant can live longer than 1 year. With much heating and probably some artificial lighting, one might keep a full-size plant with growing pumpkin alive through winter into the next summer. A growing season of 400 days at 10 lbs a day would then give a 4000 pound pumpkin. Of course the greenhouse should have a big enough door ... Instead of bringing the pumpkin to the scales, maybe then it is easier to bring the scales to the pumpkin.

If this is all nonsense, please tell me why. Are there natural limits?

Marijn

10/12/2004 3:43:14 PM

[email protected]

Disney Florida is fooling around with this idea. I know I'd love to try it. Cooling options & artificially extended day length are another couple advantages.

10/12/2004 3:48:42 PM

Itzetown City

Marijn, even if you have probably a blossom end split, do you know that in due to the life expentancy 60 days after fruitset the fruit gets ripen and 120 days after germination the stump of the plant passed away?
However, after saving today seeds out of a rotten pumpkin I would´nt know how a pumpkin stink after 400 days.

10/12/2004 4:24:44 PM

Wroclaw, Poland (51 N, 17 E)

jos tried greenhouse. Maybe not glass one, but plastic and good one. He grew... 407kg pumpkin (am I right?)...

10/12/2004 4:36:56 PM

Erlangen, Germany

Boehnke,
of course if it splits then the game is over. (Woould not be so nice for those Disney visitors eh?) But would the pumpkin have to split, also if you kept it at a relatively low growth rate?

10/12/2004 5:21:48 PM

Wroclaw, Poland (51 N, 17 E)

it is all the hobby of growing pumpkin is. If it grows fats it is heavy, but may split. If it grows slowly it won't split, but will be samll etc. :-D

10/12/2004 5:25:54 PM

Rhode Island

seaman

extending the season usually only works if you had a normal start time and want to keep the fruit creeping along for a few extra weeks ( OR EVEN A FEW DAYS SOMETIMES )
pumpkins have a life cycle, and its very rare when a fruit polinated in late june or early july grows any past the end of september
i do agree with you that starting a plant in a good heated ( soil also ) structure say three weeks earlier than the norm ( 5-1 to 5-5 here in ri ), that by doing so would put your fruit into its biggest growth cycle at a time in mid july when the days are the longest
you would still get the same amt of growing days and would need to hold the fruit on the plant a few weeks waiting on a weighoff but you caught the timing of maximaum daylite and major fruit growth at the same time

10/12/2004 5:57:00 PM

Cologne / Germany

Hi seaman, just a new german grower right about the end of the season...welcome...anything you grew this year?
Concerning the greenhouse I doubt you can do much more than an experienced grower with good seeds, good soil and the right weather will do outside.
A greenhouse is something to help you in areas like here in northern europe to gain some lbs+ but nothing more, furthermore heat, mildew and the lack of a good rain shower might disturb your plant growing the "real big one". I doubt AG´s are meant to be grown artificial though it might be a little help if your growing conditions are not optimal. Just my two cents.
Ingo

10/12/2004 6:40:15 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

I have to agree with Ingo. I think some kind of greenhouse protection is good in the spring when plants are still small and if you don't mind the extra work and cost also at the end of the season for frost protection but year-round greenhouse makes no sense! Pumpkins will never grow more than 100 days.

Martin

10/12/2004 7:38:53 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Adrian Gervais did it this year and had a 949 pounder that was mostly grown in late August and Sept. this year.

10/12/2004 7:54:55 PM

Wichita, KS

Hmmm. I germinated my 675 Hester on May 6, this year. It is still growing in the field, with no rot on the basal crown. Many of the leaves have died, but the vine remains strong. I have a fruit on it that is still gaining about 3 pounds per day, although it is small (around 170 pounds est). So the vine is over 155 days old, growing in awful soil, and adding weight to a fruit, in the open field. I think it would have done better in a controlled environment if the summer heat could have been kept down.

10/12/2004 8:05:48 PM

Leamington, Ont.

I think that with artificial lighting in a green house like that would possibly work. Here's a quote from a site I found:
Photoperiodism is the system that plants use to figure out what season they are in; they use the uninterrupted periods of darkness to determine the season. Longer days = growing season. Smart little buggers, aren't they?

http://www.windowbox.com/cgi-bin/experts/DisplayArticle.asp?TopicID=1&ArticleID=59

10/12/2004 8:25:11 PM

Colo.Spgs.CO. Pikes Peak Chapter @ [email protected]

Controlled environments harbor an extra-ordinary amount of problems on an extreme level of that of the plants grown outdoors, as the pests and pathogens reproduce at an accelerated rate that can overwhelm even the most seasoned and professional growers that have dealt with controlled environments and indoor growing. Better get to college if the effort to do an AG on a long term large scale basis indoors, as you will have to be a pro....I personally helped with the grass roots cloning project with madman the clone man a few years ago on a small scale, and believe me to do a large scale project indoors with multiple plants would be a full time job and a very large effort $$$$, toward the prospect of taming the AG indoors......And then there is the ??? of which genetic to use to best adapt to that controlled environment ?? .......James Kane

10/13/2004 3:17:53 AM

[email protected]

Greenhouse growing can duplicate any climate anywhere. IF the right controls are installed. So the cost concern is real to do it right.

Failure to properly contol humidity ventilation & temperature can cause accelerated proliferation of pests. However the indoor Florida Cucumber famers are doing it cost effectively.

Dialing in a program that does NOT favor Powdery Mildew already is a reality for greenhouse producers. Unfortunately AG's like similar conditions, so a soild fungicide program would remain.

White Flies & Aphids are indoor concerns that are easily dealt with now by greenhouse growers.

The key here is the Computerized controllers. Done well, we could run a Goffstown program for seeds that do well in Goffstown.

All this stuff is already available "off the shelf" from greenhouse suppliers. So the barrier is cost not intelligence. It's just a different set of intelligence being used indoors.

Agreed that extending the season is generally less important than extending the day length (photoperiod).

10/13/2004 6:20:46 AM

ENGLAND

MARIJN
The previous and the new UK Record Pumpkins were grown in proffesional type Greenhouses (Glasshouses). In our type of climate it is, in my oppinion, essential to use Greenhouses to grow Competitively sized Pumpkins. Anyone who does not have this luxurious advantage will struggle to get anywhere near 1000 Lbs. The growers of such pumpkins have been/are proffesional nursery men and have a MAJOR advantage over outdoor only growers. FACT !!

10/13/2004 9:34:35 AM

ENGLAND

In adition to the above. Proffesional Nurserymen also have the distinct advantage of being able to incorporate growing Giant Pumpkins into their Businesses. Soil conditioning materials, Plant Food products,Irrigation components, Heating/Ventilation etc etc can all be seen as expences in running the business.

10/13/2004 9:43:38 AM

[email protected]

In the US, if a grower were to donate the Pumpkins to charity, the cost is a business expense & a tax deduction. Hint hint.

10/13/2004 10:25:40 AM

Erlangen, Germany

Thanks for all the replies.

So it seems greenhouses can be (are!) used for growing in a climate which is otherwise too cold. And maybe also for extending the day length. But probably not for extending the growing season, because of the natural lifetime of about 120 (155?) days for the plant, 60 (?) days for the fruit. And trying would cost much effort and $$$.

Floh asked did I grow anything? Well, only very small because I don't have a garden. This year I grew pumpkins (AG seed) on my balcony (south, 20x6 feet) to see what would happen. I even got some pumpkins, nice orange color, but too small to discuss here. I discovered this website too late to change anything. I think next time I would use compost and enable the plant to grow tap roots, because I now think this has limited them. Wind was also a problem and that started me thinking about greenhouses. Of course I know competitive fruit are impossible this way, it's just for fun. And for exercise if I ever have a garden, then you might hear from me again... :-)

10/13/2004 1:45:18 PM

[email protected]

Don't sign off too fast. There are a couple good friends here who have either taken a year off or are still building a patch. They still participate.

Dick & Ron Wallace have me believing that a miniature Atlantic Giant can be done. Look at their 918 that grew on 125 sq ft of plant.

In a previous life I was very involved with Bonsai. I still have a couple.

If a pumpkin were growing in a soiless or hydroponic media, & properly vine trained & pruned, I think a respectable fruit could be grown in a 10 square meter area.

10/13/2004 1:58:18 PM

Erlangen, Germany

Tremor,

918 pounds on 125 sq ft of area is possible? That gives hope. I'll sure try again.

May I ask: why soilless? Wouldn't a large bin of earth / compost (and smaller bins for tap roots) work also, provided one would water and fertilize often enough?

10/13/2004 4:45:31 PM

Erlangen, Germany

Ooops, I meant: a bin of soil / compost

10/13/2004 4:56:47 PM

Belgium Europe

I grew 3 pumpkins on two plants in greenhouse . 917,680 and 444lbs.Won Belgian championship. Next year i will grow two plants in greenhouse again even though it's a lot of extra work .Never sweated more than in the 'cold' summer of 2004 ... lol. I have to agree with martin here... Pumpkin wan't grow for more than 100 days.. .no matter what you do.But greenhouse is an
ideal protection against cold, hail.. wind...
greetings
Jos

10/13/2004 5:47:10 PM

Long Island,New York

Saying you can grow a 919lb pkn on a 125sq ft plant is SOOOOO misleading its a crime. It implies someone with only 125 sq ft can get a 900lb pkn. So., how many sq ft of pkn plant did you cut off the plant after you grew the plant to fruiting stage?.

10/13/2004 6:31:50 PM

[email protected]

G,

I'm quoting Dick Wallace himself who knows because he did it. Granted the 125 sq ft portion of plant was severed from a larger vine. But the fruit was under 100 lbs when the vine was severed.

Hydroponic root systems are considerably smaller than their earthbound counterpart because they can be. All the air & nutrients they need are constantly cycling past the roots. So they stay where the meals are. Our conventional soils get sucked dry of nutrients so fast it's incredible.

I will stand on the opinion that if a practiced grower took the time to snake train a vine properly, then a productive plant could be contained to a small well lit area.

Perhaps that would involve removing a sizable portion of the potted Basal crown & discarding it after fruitset. So what?

The cutting we grew here this year started the diameter of a my little finger, fell out of it's pots with a root system smaller than a pack of cigarettes & never established a primary root system. But after 2 just nodes, the main was bigger around than my arm.

I believe the reason this hasn't happened is because people haven't tried. Maybe they take negative comments to heart & give up.

10/13/2004 7:08:17 PM

Leamington, Ont.

Considering I grew and est 393lb pumpkin this year on just shy of 150 (147) sq.ft, and i'm a first year grower.With the experience and knowledge of Dick Wallace I don't doubt this at all!
only had a thin top dressing of manure and lots of ferts, it was gaining 17 pounds a day until I developed a stem split and pulled it from the vine sept 4th. Who knows what weight it may have reached until oct.

10/14/2004 12:16:40 AM

Itzetown City

Marijn, AGs on the balcony? Ya did´nt mean it?

http://www.norddeutsche-kuerbiszuechter.de/html/kurioses.html
http://english.pravda.ru/fun/2003/03/21/44797.html

10/14/2004 4:37:29 AM

Erlangen, Germany

boehnke,
that's a queer story!
But don't worry, I'll keep the plant safely on the ground and won't let anything go over the side. (Hmmm... might that be a new way for growing long gourds? :-) )

Under "Plant sizes and pumpkin weights" there is now a lot of info on plant area. I don't suppose all these plants were reduced in area after fruit set?

10/14/2004 12:49:07 PM

Long Island,New York

Steve...Im not saying the 900 wasn't grown in 125 sq ft after severing the first portion of the plant. ( I don't goubt Dick or Ron at all...or you either (this time..lol) )
Im just saying you cant say they grew a 900lber in 125 feet without first explaining that they cut off the first part of the plant. You cant get most plants to fruit in an 11x 11 plot ! Just like Dick mentions earlier that growing a monster over grass is not the way to go, niether is claiming a 900lber in 125 sq ft, implying a small 125 sq ft patch will do 900....thats all I am saying.....G

10/14/2004 1:46:54 PM