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[email protected]

Is the 842 Eaton "the" seed or could and would Al Eaton have grown a 1446 Pounder with a 707 Toftness, 802 Dill, 419 Pukos, 845 Nesbitt, or any of the other same great crosses
All the 846 X 723 crosses have shown well, I think. So are they equally as good and does the grower make the difference in this case.
Randy and Deb sure did well with the 707.
Quinn Werner put the 845 Nesbitt close to the top.
I am in no way trying to discredit the 842 Eaton, but if it was in my patch this summer I might have been able to grow a 600 pounder with the weather we had.
Eddy

10/8/2004 11:13:04 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

I think that part of the success was the genetics, but you have to factor in a few more variables: years of soil prep, and grower experience.

10/9/2004 12:29:03 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Al could've grown a 1446 with any number of seed. I agree with what both of you said...there's a reason he's the Top grower in the world for 6+ years now, and it's not because of magic seed.

10/9/2004 6:11:27 AM

Commack, NY

Eddy, that's an excellent question. I know that some of us have been kicking around those same ideas for years. The only problem is the only way to really prove it would be to try to convince Al, or any other consistent heavy hitter, to grow a "looks good on paper" cross, from a smaller weighted, relatively unknown fruit. I'm not sure how feasible that really is, but maybe with some perserverance, it could be doable. Im inclined to think that any heavy hitter could do wonders with just about any seed, but on the other hand, genetics play a factor for sure. There are alot of seeds out there that will get you to 1000, 1100, 1200 these days. In actuality, Al is the only one who has really opened the flood gates with the 842. It absolutly has grown some big ones, but the REALLY big ones have been grown by Al himself. Now why is that? Im inclined to believe that the genetics are there, however, combine that with grower skill level, and you have a combination for success. It has gotten a pretty good run the last couple of years. Im sure next year it will be grown even more, along with other 846x723 crosses.

10/9/2004 8:45:01 AM

[email protected]

This speaks to the concept we bantered about last winter.

HIRED-HEAVY-HITTERS!

Guys who know every trick in the book, have the time, space & resources to play them & have their soil & pest control programs dialed to a tee.

10/9/2004 11:22:08 AM

[email protected]

Perhaps I should say "make" the time. LOL

10/9/2004 12:59:00 PM

Herndon, VA

This year I grew the 842 and ended up with 563 lbs. I have done better (personal best 683 lbs.) on unproven seed. My point is simply to illustrate that there is more to it than just having "the" seed.

10/9/2004 10:47:59 PM

Puyallup, WA

Please keep in mind that not every seed produced by the 842 has the exact same genetic code. We all know of 845's,
723's that have produced "duds" when grown by even "heavy hitters". The key...pass a "divining wand" over each seed! ;>)

10/10/2004 1:22:22 AM

Joliet, IL

for the 842 to produce a 1301.5 and a 1446 has to mean
something, even if in al's hands. i am sure al grows
more than one plant a year, so with all of his efforts
being equal (unless the plant was used as a pollinator only)
how come the 842 produced his biggest of his patch
2 years in a row. every seed is not the same as stan said,
but if the genetics weren't good or better than some other
seeds, then why is al concentrating on the 842 and why
has it worked for him so successfully. its not a magic
seed, but the genetic potential with in the cross
can produce magical results. i am not darwin or mendall,
but take a big dog and another big dog and chances are
even the runt of the litters will be bigger than most
regular size dogs if bred the same way.

10/10/2004 9:25:55 AM

Joliet, IL

oops, after re reading the thread, i sort of missed the boat. good point. i imagine al could grow the 707 and
produce the same results because the same genetic pool
gives them the chance to go big.

10/10/2004 9:31:22 AM

Sask, Canada

Eddy:

I believe you answered your own question and there has been a saying around that explains exactly what is happening...

Good Seed, Good Soil & Good Luck.

Let me explain from the last first. I believe you create your own luck by the choices you make and the time and effort you put into something, however there also is a thing called dumb luck but I don't believe that plays a part in growing giant pumpkins.

Lets look at this example...

Guy A buys a lottery ticket and wins 3 million next year he wins $129,000 then six months later he wins over $800,000.

Guy B buys a lottery ticket and wins the biggest 649 jackpot at 29 million.

Whats the difference...

Guy A spent roughly $1,000 every two weeks on tickets and when he hit the big one he started putting $10,000 a draw in winning even more, however he is now broke without a dime.(true story that happened in Saskatchewan)

Guy B buys tickets only when the jackpot is big and just became the luckiest man on earth, dumb luck....

cont'

10/10/2004 11:16:16 AM

Sask, Canada

The point to that is you are dealt alot of things when growing and it is much like a crap shoot, it depends what you do with those things that determine your success.

Another point...

I have been told before by some one looking at my plants "Boy your LUCKY you didn't get hit with that frost last night, your plants didn't get hit at all."

This was not luck, we did get hit with frost and I was up and out of the house at 4:00am misting till the temp warmed up.

cont'

10/10/2004 11:23:42 AM

Sask, Canada

The soil well that is still being perfected "snicker".

As for the seeds I have always known the 846 x 723 type cross would be a great one both are what are known as line bred seeds then crossed out producing great seed, now if you cross these two you get even better.

This type of cross is done all the time in dogs, horses, flowers and yes tomatoes.

It would be nice to see pumpkins bred this way and then you could be very selective with your crosses and the options of different seed or line bred famil's. It is difficult to do this because most growers cross their plants all over the place not given thought to why they did a certain cross or tightening their genetics which line breeding does. You see a seed with genetics from all different pumpkins.

Now look at Als genetics same family line bred for how many generations. Look at my wifes 727 (this is a new out cross) but brings in the line of the 801.5 (705 and 846)
and the 935 (845 (same as 723)and 712)crossed together. Notice how close they are to the way they were pollinated over the generations but different lines.

have a look at the top producing pumpkins for 2002

723, 845, 846, 705 and 712 wow and all now in just one seed.

There also is a reason why Al's seed is better than the other similar crosses and is as plain as day but I won't go into that. He can however tighten his cross as well but I won't mention that either.

The way I see it is that we are at a cross roads with the seeds alot of the great ones are getting older and fewer and hopefully we will see some new great crosses next year.

I see alot of possible crosses but there are very few good crossed seeds to use to make a new killer cross, but they are out there.

I'll end here,

Sorry I'm so long winded

TTYL
Ernie
Giant Veggies

10/10/2004 11:48:28 AM

Stouffville

Ernie,

Why is Al's seed better than other similar crosses and how can he tighten it?

Thanks,

Mike

10/22/2004 6:27:03 PM

Knopp, Germany

Al's 842 is special from the others because the male pollinator also produced a pumpkin over 1200 pounds.

10/25/2004 8:29:57 AM