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Wood River, Nebraska

I'm looking to expand in order to grow at least 1 more plant this next year.(3 total) Any new area must come from highly maintained turf. My wife will agree as long as most of the turf is left in place, and there is no perimeter fencing. My questions are:
1) what would be the minimum area that would need to be developed?
2) Should a planting pit be developed and if so to what depth?
3)any special treatments to turf with fungicides etc.?
thanks in advance
stewee=dave

10/8/2004 9:31:11 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

OK, lemme chime in here!
In 2001 I grew a 620# on grass, my yard. I did nothing but Miracle-Gro it....beginners luck.
Last year, I grew a 435# in my yard, late pollination...last week in July. It grew out of a 4' deep, 3' wide pit that I had regularly added compost, manure, grass clippings, and 10-10-10 for 2 years. I had added a couple more pits in 2002 and have treated them the same except without the Triple 10.
My 2004 soil tests showed the pits soil to be high quality but my yard soil was terrible, 4.7 pH I think among other things. So this year I sprayed liquid lime, and added 0-0-50, 21-0-0, 0-46-0, minor elements, gypsum, and as overkill..Triple 19, to the yard. I let the rain push it in instead of running a hole plugger thru the yard.
So far in '04 I've gotten a 558# (on a secondary) in the yard and have another fruit taping slightly over 500# that's going to a local competition next week. I also grew (3) 300+ fruit, (1) 400+, and 6 nice 150-200# "porch sitters", off my own 208# from last year. The expected color on those is outstanding and seems to have been unaffected by the fact they were grown in grass.
Before planting this year, I used a hose-end sprayer product that controls Brown Patch & Dollar Spot....yard looked good all Summer! Yard size is approx 2500 sq ft. and it got a little tight this year with some overlapping.

10/8/2004 10:53:50 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

BTW...I never bury any vines in the yard, the grass keeps them secured. You *will* have lots of dead areas when the season is over and things are cleaned up, but spreading some Fall lawn fertilizer will have it looking good again in the Spring.
If you're looking to grow 1000# in the yard, I'm not sure you'll get there. But 600#+ is possible, and you can grow those genetic crosses or porch sitters there that you don't want using up your valuable patch space.

10/8/2004 11:03:08 AM

[email protected]

Personally I find it hard enough as it is to seperate business from pleasure. So turf & pumkins need to keep to themselves.

Plus since I now make the wife cut the grass she has a sudden interest in pumpkins. LOL

If you're serious, then a plant growth regulator like Primo Maxx will reduce the GA in the turf & slow it way down at labeled rates or near zero if you get creative. We would spray at very low pressure or better yet, use a heavy nap paint roller (no drift) making the application ahead of the advancing vines.

By fall, the turf will still have grown well above the regular mowing height so after cleanup, the first mowing will take all the color out of the grass. But it won't be as bad & will recover more quickly than non-PGR treated turf.

Turf w

10/8/2004 11:10:57 AM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

People who grow on grass:

1} Cannot cut or trim the lawn when it grows over it. Grass will try to grow to the sunlight, falling all over and looking like a mess in the end. Your lawn will die in several areas then, and your wife will kick your ass.
2} Can expect to become the powdery mildew king of the world.
3} Can expect to have a lots of nats and various insect problems.
4}Cannot vine bury anything. Pruning is also a problem as suckers are hard to find in all the tall grass.

In addition to that, people who grow on grass

1} Loose their car keys a lot
2} Forget things a lot
3}Usually include the words "wow" or "man" or "cool" in a lot of their conversations.
4}Have very bloodshot eyes.

A long winter indeed.....

10/8/2004 11:13:25 AM

Western NY

while i don't "grow on grass" as much as the term implies, i usually have about 4 plants of which about 50% of their final area coverage lies on what would normally be considered lawn. the key is to have that inner 50% of the soil well tuned, and bury as much as you can, even on the "lawn" yep, pm is bad, but then again it usually is. i would say that the worst problem is that the extra grasses and weeds provide great cover for mosquitoes.

oh, and all of my 700+ pound fruit were grown this way.

10/8/2004 11:46:08 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

1) Thanks for the PGR tip Steve, may have to try that, tall grass *is* a problem.
2) PM and insects can be controlled with disciplined spraying.
3) As memtioned, use it only for non-competitive stuff, or Jack-O-Lanterns
4) Pay no attention to Madman, he's a moron.

10/8/2004 12:21:40 PM

[email protected]

Oh I recommend Primo Maxx to veryone who grows pumpkins. Who has time for cutting grass when growing AGs?.......now where are my damn keys.

10/8/2004 1:11:39 PM

Key West, FL

just till the grass in, the area will still be green when the plant grows over it.

10/8/2004 2:12:51 PM

San Diego

grown over grass many times, it can be done, my pm wasn't anyworse than on dirt, and it's not that hard to do or maintain, the grass does get tall after awhile, but it never grows over the plant in my experience. The grass does grow back just fine too:) Go for it! Jimmy

10/8/2004 2:46:34 PM

Vancouver, White Rock, Canada

I grew on grass this year, and PM wasn't bad at all (obviously you need to spray for it). I would suggest at least a 6' X 6' grassless area where the stump / basal crown is (which is what I have). I also bury most of my vines on grass, and had no problems, they rooted pretty deep regardless of the grass. At the end of the season, you might have some "splainin" to do, as I did, as the grass is pretty thin where it was shaded for 3 - 4 months. So, like, wow, man. Cool. I gotta go look for my car keys...

10/8/2004 4:11:26 PM

Vancouver, White Rock, Canada

BTW, the hours you spend on your hands and keens cutting grass with a pair of scissors are hours of your life lost forever. Uggh.

10/8/2004 4:15:17 PM

Vancouver, White Rock, Canada

keens = knees.

10/8/2004 4:15:36 PM

canal winchester ohio

I don't grow on grass, but I have grown while on alcohol.......

10/8/2004 4:25:58 PM

Massillon, Ohio

if my plants feel adventurous and head towards the grass, my dad heads towards them with the lawn mower (no joke)

10/8/2004 5:31:44 PM

Sort of Sunny Sometimes, WA

I shall refer to my 18 y/o son about growing on grass. He's been looking a little stunted lately and no joke, is always, ALWAYS losing his car keys. . .

10/8/2004 5:52:29 PM

Northern Cambria, Pa.

Nothing wrong with it as long as you don't inhale...

10/8/2004 8:20:10 PM

Rhode Island

if you want to be successful as a grower of giant pumpkins and you insist on growing on grass you are wasting your time

if gardens were ment to be grown on top of a lawn no one would spend the time to cultivate there gardens

if you truly want to grow a big pumpkin you need to make the space available and put the work and money into developing the proper soil structure for them to florish in

pumpkins on grass ?????? no serious pumpkin grower would even think twice about it

sorry, but thats a fact

10/8/2004 10:52:34 PM

Rhode Island

if you want to be successful as a grower of giant pumpkins and you insist on growing on grass you are wasting your time

if gardens were ment to be grown on top of a lawn no one would spend the time to cultivate there gardens

if you truly want to grow a big pumpkin you need to make the space available and put the work and money into developing the proper soil structure for them to florish in

pumpkins on grass ?????? no serious pumpkin grower would even think twice about it

sorry, but thats a fact

10/8/2004 10:52:37 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

I have spent numerous hours on my garden soil the last 3 years, and still have a long way to go. I also consider myself very serious about AG growing, heck, I'm trying to keep a fledgling pumpkin growers organization going single-handedly. I spend most, if not all, of my spare time in giant pumpkin related matters.
I also grow a few plants in my yard each year with some amount of semi-moderate success. Why? Because I can, and because I like to grow a few extra color pumpkins for my wife and kids. It's also the only spare area I have to get in a "genetics only" cross each year.
I take a bit of offense to hear that no "serious" grower would do that. We work with what we've got, and we don't all have what others have.

10/9/2004 6:21:37 AM

Kenyon, Mn.

I agree with Kyle, that is a little offensive, Available space is NOT avilable to all who want to grow ag's. Sure the well prepared area is preferred, I had one spot ready for my attempt this year, Luckily, I have well over 6000 sq. ft. available(had to Down-size vegetable garden a tad), and was able to plant the 5 that germinated. None reached the grass, however, if they had, only the last 15 feet or so would have, I doubt that the vines would have been affected.I say go with what you got, maybe after the wife see's your enthusiasm,and catches the "bug" herself, you will have less lawn!

10/9/2004 9:02:56 AM

Kenyon, Mn.

And Steve...if you Find a set of keys that aren't yours...they Could be mine!LOL

10/9/2004 9:05:08 AM

Gilbertsville PA

Growing on the grass is better then not growing at all
if that is your only space go for it good luck

10/9/2004 9:25:55 AM

San Diego

I have had no option but growing over grass the last 3 years , I wish I had all dirt, finally this year, I have a patch with all dirt by God's blessings:) I think it's wrong to hear someone say we're not serious growers because of having grass. sometimes it's not in our control to have a perfect patch like the big guys pap. Maybe you ought to thank the good lord for your blessings instead of ripping those that aren't as blessed my friend. Jimmy

10/9/2004 5:33:48 PM

[email protected]

If the vines render the grass unusable as a lawn (and they do), then what's the harm in ripping up the grass at least ahead of the advancing vine. I'm not slamming the "grass growers". But what kind of grass can't be replaced?

10/9/2004 6:37:31 PM

Rhode Island

sorry if you got offended folks but thats a simple fact

you cant grown anything competitive on grass and yes, if all you want is a pretty pumpkin to set on your front step then by all means grow anywhere you want

my remarks were to make a point about growing to those that are trying to grow a giant pumpkin and increase there weights, not to those that dont care about it

10/9/2004 9:01:30 PM

huntsburg,ohio

I agree with Dick you need a well prepared area to be competitive.If all you want is a jack o latern then grow on the grass.When i bought my house i had pumpkins in mind.So i have 9 acres now and 95 percent sun.Have 4 patches for rotation and will build more with time.Just depends how,as my wife would say,stupid you want to be.Jerry
PS Got a job interview this week for a job that pays 5 dollars more a hour than i make now.Don't know if i can take it because it could interfere with polinating time...lol

10/10/2004 10:20:16 PM

Indiana

You havent had much problem pollinating lately have you?

See you next weekend Jerry!

Tom

10/11/2004 12:06:40 AM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

My buddy Steve grew a 411 lb. in his first year with AGs with about a 15' X 10' area of great soil and the the rest of the secondaries over the grass. He has followed up this year with another great fruit (yet to be weighed)and considers himself a "serious grower" Pap, don't forget there are urban, backyard growers around that don't have several inexpensive acres of land to grow on that should still be given some respect and taken as serious growers.

10/11/2004 3:06:12 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

Lay off Pap guys... If I'm not mistaken, I do believe he is just trying to give the best advice out of all options available, which would be "work the soil" and till in the lawn for the best results. I too have had to do my share of growing over lawns, weeds, animals, vehicles, or anything in the way. I'd prefer to grow in soil, but sometimes we gotta grow wherever we can.... even if that means growing in Colorado Springs....

{the worst option of all}

10/14/2004 6:10:33 PM

Vancouver, White Rock, Canada

I grow pumpkins in the city, my entire back yard is approximately 20' X 40', most of which is grass. Am I going to be a heavy hitter in this environment? No. Am I serious about growing pumpkins? Yes. I think what Pap meant was, to be a serious "contender" you can't grow on grass. Look at all the 1100+ fruit grown lately, and you'll notice that none of them are sitting on grass. Mine will be the first next year, though, SERIOUSLY!

Lawman (the NEXT hitter).

10/14/2004 8:26:36 PM