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Rhode Island

think about this for a moment
how many world records have been set by growers from their own seed stocks grown back in the same soil these seeds were developed in ?

im not sure of the total but dave stelts, steve daletas and al eaton i believe did it ( there may be others )

doee it not seem logical then ,that your seed stock,
( providing of course that the genetic qualities you desire were created to begin with )--- would stand a better chance of reproducing in the exact same soil and climate ,rather than a different location ?

what do you folks that have some knowlede in this area think ?

thanks
dick

10/5/2004 7:12:52 PM

Rexburg, Idaho

Interesting approach. This is the second year that I have grown my own seeds (the grass is always greener on the other side). The first time around I ended up with a pumpkin that split out at only about 1/2 of the parents weight. This year I grew my 480 and ended up splitting the pumpkin out at 717 pounds (240 pounds more then the parent, at the time it was my best pumpkin in the patch and should have easily been able to put on another 200 had it held together) and my son grew my 543 and ended up with a 641 (on a plant that was not extremely well cared for) 100 pounds more then the parent. Is this just luck or was something to it. Certainly I believe many of us run around chasing the magic seed when we may have it in our own stock but never are willing to give it a chance.

10/5/2004 7:58:11 PM

Key West, FL

I think your own seeds do good in your patch most of the time.

10/5/2004 7:58:15 PM

In the shade - PDX, OR

Dick - Was talking about this very subject with Shellie Cramer last Saturday.

Why not try your own seed? As long as you have the patch space give it a whorl.

Considerations
- APOG, are the genetics something you would consider growing even if it was someone elses seed?
- Did you like the way the parent plants performed? leaves secondaries, stem length, fruit color & shape etc.

A good example that comes to mind is Shannon Summers this year. His 1145 was grown from his own 975 from last year (1038 Emmons X 1005 Mombert) This is a specific strain cross between the 723 X 846.

If you know how the plant performs and you like the outcome why not grow your own?

10/5/2004 7:58:40 PM

[email protected]

Dick,

I think your Wallace seeds more or less confirmed this at Topsfield this year.

I think Darwin called it genetic selection. We just help things along when we select the best progeny from our our back yard for our own back yards.

10/5/2004 8:07:11 PM

Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

Dick,

I am beginning to be intrigued by this theory. If you look on the AGGC site and scroll down to all those 1000lbers, look how many were grown from the growers own seed stock......Ray Leonzi

10/5/2004 9:24:30 PM

Puyallup, WA

Seems to me that if you won't take a gamble and plant your own seeds, why should anyone else? Unless you have a last name like Eaton, Bobier, Rose or Daletas, the chances that any "good" grower will risk a spot in their patch and grow your "unknown" seed are slim. We all want to plant some "proven" seeds. Although frankly, I do not receive a thrill growing a known seed because if it "bombs", then I figure that it was all my fault. My 582 was a "bomb" this year....a $200 BOMB! Later in the summer, I found that it wasn't entirely my fault as I had alot of company with 582 "duds"! I receive far more excitement growing an unknown seed...especially my own...than I get from growing a "sure thing". This year, BOTH of my "sure thing" seeds(582 & 783) "bombed!! Oh well....there's alway next year!

10/5/2004 9:27:34 PM

Rhode Island

stan and all
the reason i mentioned the subject was in fact due to having only two plants left in the patch after starting with 10
ron and i worked our butts off ( not to mention the dollars spent on everything from a fancy blower to water treatment to you name it ), only to loose several high profile pumpkins to one thing or another,only one of which could be attributed to a soil disease situation
there are good seed stocks that we need to develope a cross in our patches, but once thats been established i think we would be good to go ( less expense to )
thanks to everyone for your comments

10/5/2004 10:30:54 PM

Puyallup, WA

I lost two "local" plants this year to "vine rot". Bad things can and do happen even to your own plants.

10/5/2004 11:33:42 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

I lost every competition pumpkin to splits this year, except my 307 Little. It didn't get grown by any high-profile names, but weighed between 15-26% heavy OTC for the few that grew it.

10/6/2004 12:24:55 AM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

I've been doing a long term breeding project, nothing for competition {yet}. This is year two of a 5 year plan. I've already had my first surprise, off my 303 from last season {F= 825 Shymanski X M 940 Mombert 98} which is my "new and inproved 801". I'll be weighing it Saturday, curious to see if it weighs as charted { it is a mombert genetic, so I'm not getting hopes high}. This seed was germinated back in February, and was a pruning experiment early on. The plant was sprouted just to see if those seeds were viable or not. It was put in one of my breeder patches and given a 200 SF area. The soil is not what I'd call even sub par for growing over there, but you gotta grow where you can man! Watering has been consistant, but not uniformal or applied during the crucial periods when it needed {bro in law did do a great job learning and helping to grow this year}. I expect it to definatly top 500 pounds. Not bad for not being grown in my soil with my constant care and love. It was selfed for this year, but will be crossed next year with a clone off its momma and a selfed 1098 Burke {a Garrell genetic}. Time will tell, but creating specific gentic liines are going to be a must soon... if we want to grow them and not blow them....

10/6/2004 1:28:23 AM

Sask, Canada

Ok, I'll throw my two cents in...

Alot of research found us creating our own planned cross last year, the wife's 727 Pearce.

We liked the 1230 Daletas and 1337 Houghton, made from the 845 Bobier, 846 Calai, 705 Stelts and 712 Kuhn. This year we planted the 845 Bobier in one patch and the 842 Eaton and 727 in another. Well when it came time to pull either the 842 or 727 the 842 got cut.

The 845 this year was one of the worst plants in our climate I've ever grown, the 727 took the heat and cold went through two hail storms and still managed to pop a 716 lb pumpkin and on 218 sq.ft.

When temps went to +5 over night the 845 slowed to 6lbs per day the 727 didn't skip a beat and cruised at 22lbs per day. This years 716 was pulled off the vine 21 days before weigh-off and ended 12.5 under chart and still gaining 16.5lbs per day. We know of one 1,000lber off the 727 and possibly one more after an Oct. 16 weigh-off.

So will I spend $$$ for another 845 or other top seed, not likely we have a good seed that has a couple spots in our patches next year and we know it does well in our climate and patch.

TTYL
Ernie
Giant Veggies

Ps. It's funny how plants have a way of climatizing them self...

10/6/2004 1:40:31 AM

Sequim, WA

Twice in the nine years of growing I have gotten my personal best from my own seeds. I am a firm believer in growing your own both from a standpoint of proving out your own seeds, and performance in the patch. I have long said that if you won't grow your own seeds, why should anyone else want to? Soil and climate conditions being generally the same from year to year you can get an idea if your seeds have what it takes or not. I think the problem is even with the APOG only a percentage of seeds from a given fruit have the right makeup to outperform their parents, a greater percentage will be fairly average, and the rest will do nothing to impress. So to get a real picture of what they are capable of you need to grow a large number of plants and few of us have the time or other resources to do this. What we can get is a general idea of what genetic traits our progeny have picked up. You also know what traits both parent plants had in your patch and can gain a better understanding of how the genetics are working when you grow their progeny out. There will always be the allure of the latest "hot" proven seeds. But what works well in Oregon may not prove to be that hot in Ohio and vice versa. Adding those hot genetics or combinations of them that appeal to you into your own lines could be the ticket to producing a record breaker in you patch. It definately adds interest to the season even if it doesn't pan out as you expected.

10/6/2004 12:30:23 PM