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Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

Posted this before, but now is the time to get going on this if you have a silver bullet plant you want to keep alive. You may never get another plant that grows like the one you have now, and if you do have a special plant, MAKE A CUTTING AND KEEP A CLONE OF IT! You will reap the benefits right away next season ,as your plant will be sending out male flowers before your seed started plants are even growing their first leaves! You will have a great pollinating plant, and you won't have the problem of not having any male flowers early in the season when you want some! You also have the option of trying to re- growing the plant for fruit, if desired. These are good reasons to keep clones going, so read this and go start your cuttings!
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9/23/2004 12:56:25 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

Keeping a clone {cutting} alive is easy, sort of...

Root a vine tip in a long narrow pot outdoors {3 weeks before expected frost}, by mixing systematic insecticide in the rooting medium and spraying the plant for disease first. Then cut two "U" shaped grooves into both sides of the long & narrow pot for the incomming vine to root into some deep soil initially without having to bend it down over the pot edge. The other side is cut out for the outgoing vine.

Bury your plant vine into this pot with the tip barely left sticking out of the cut out pot groove. Let it then grow until you have 2-3 side shoots emerging from the leaf nodes. Then cut the main vine off at the 3rd leaf past the pot. This will allow you to keep the inital plant smaller, and allow it plenty of time to root in the pot.

Once the side shoots start to reach out and attempt to run, it is then time to cut the clone away from the original plant at the groove where it goes into the pot. Move the plant to an area where it doesn't get any direct sunlight for a couple days so it doesn't get stressed and die off. It is normal to loose a leaf or two, sometimes all the sun leaves will wilt and die. Don't freak out, as the plant is simply diverting its energy into the new shoots, and they shouldn't be affected.

9/23/2004 12:57:03 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

DO NOT OVERWATER!!!! Moist soil is key! Too much and the cutting will never root, or if it did root initally, it will die of root rot! At this point, your new "clone" is ready to bring indoors.

Keep it growing from pot to pot under a shop light with 2 40 watt cool white bulbs, or in a bay window where it will get the full winter sunlight. You will need a bigger window or more lights if you keep more than one clone going. One 4 foot shop light keeps one clone going perfectly with 2 pots side by side at all times. You can add another shop light also if you wish to allow the cutting to grow longer a little bit to make sure it is rooted long enough each time your ready to cut it away from the host pot. I suggest this to those newer at this, as it sucks to cut away a clone too soon and see it die after keeping it alive for a while.

I Hope this info helps make things simple and easy to do. I've had plenty of winters to get down a nice and simple process, and I don't have any failures anymore {unless I simply forget about them}. I started messing around with this method back in 1997, first trying to root vine tips with rooting hormones before finding this to be the easiest method.

Madman Marc

9/23/2004 12:58:11 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

I have the "how to get a cutting started" with pictures now posted in my diary... it is a good visual aid for those who prefer pictures WITH words.

9/23/2004 12:58:42 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

Here are the links to get to each mini page. If you cannot read the pages {the words are kinda small}, e mail me and I'll forward you the real deal...



http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=28375

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=28376

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=28377

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=28378

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=28379

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=28380

9/23/2004 1:18:58 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Marc,
That is great!
Many thanks!
Tom

9/23/2004 1:20:02 PM

Cologne / Germany

Excellent Marc! You show some methods how to dig and prune the vine for the clone I didn´t know before.
The silver bullet plant - also a very good aspect. Who knows if the Carlson/Peterson plant couldn´t do it again next year if still alive? On the other hand - a plant started from another 1097 seed can be a very bad surprise in 2005, like some 582 Hester plants didn´t perform at all this year. Food for thought. Thanks again for sharing it.
Ingo

9/23/2004 1:52:52 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

The 1097 was already proven before this year, it produces very heavy OTC progeny and is already in the Top 10-15 of all time with OTC pumpkins.

9/23/2004 6:37:17 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

Madman....you're nuts....but I was thinking of doing this in the new basement as a winter project.....sound advice is alot better then experimenting....now I just need a plant!

can't say "Wait Till Next Year"....when you're cloning...or can ya?

Chuck

9/23/2004 7:34:43 PM

[email protected]

So far we have cuttngs of:

705 Stelts
801 Stelts
846 Calai

These were taken much the same way Marc does his but I don't bother making the "U" shaped cut in the ends of the window boxes. This way the boxes serve the intended purpose all summer.

We also keep them in the greenhouse rather than indoors pending disasters.

9/23/2004 7:47:58 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

I did an experiment in the 1991-1992 offseason, keeping a few plants under lights in ideal conditions, and a few in a makeshift hothouse/ greenhouse I built against the house, with access through the basement window. On the nights below -0, I'd have to crack open the window and/or cover the structure to keep it warm, but it stayed in the 40's-50's most of the other winter nights. The clones inside under lights grew fine, thin vines and smaller light green leaves. The ones exposed to the colder nights grew fine too, but had larger vines and darker green leaves {can't beat natural sunlight}. The most noticeable difference was rate of overall growth. The ones indoors grew fastest and consistently rooted well, probably due to consistent temps {about 70-80}. The ones in the stucture grew slower, and had problems rooting during the real cold snaps. I'm sure that was due to phosphorus, as cold weather makes it less available, or not available at all, when soil temps drop below 40-45. Once a few nice sunny days came back, and the soil warmed up again, these plants rooted much better than those under the lights which grew in their 70-80 consistant temperature. The ones in the structure which had the larger root systems still didn't grow "faster" than the ones under lights, but they did develop much larger leaves/ vines/ and flowers. I was even able to pollinate a few females and get them to get grapefruit size before picking them off {the female fruits slowed down rooting and overall growth}.

9/23/2004 11:03:09 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

Last year I grew them in our bay window which faces due south, and is at room temps. Those plants exhibited the best overall growth, but I'd have to say those growing in the stucture were ideal, as you don't really want them growing too fast. The temperature fluctuations allow them to grow just as well as those in my bay window, but those cooler nights slowed them down, meaning LESS MAINTAINANCE ! Another item worth meantioning, the ones in the structure were by far the easiest to transplant outside when spring arrived. They wilted some only on the first day but then grew better than any seed started plant I've ever grown, as they started running by day 3-5! The plants in the bay window and the ones under lights had to be "weened" just like seed started plants. Those still only needed minimal care initally, and I have yet to loose anything once transplanting time arrives.
If you have wondered where you should grow them, hopefully this info helps you determine the best environment for you, and your plants. You don't have to fuss with them very much if you properly plan things now. Once you have everything set up and growing, you will find the hardest thing you have to do is remember that you have plants still growing!

9/23/2004 11:03:25 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

I cut and pasted this and the next posting from another thread just in case someone researches this topic in the future...


"do clone plants produce pumpkins at a simular size as the original plant ?"

The answer is yes, if the plant made from a cutting is given the correct set of conditions in which to grow in. Just like its "momma", it needs to be pruned just at the right times, watered at critical periods, vine buried and trained just right, ect. Nobody has done much in the way of trying very hard to grow them for fruit size. I've half heartedly done a bit of work, mainly for experimenting on different techniques rather than for end results. I have grown enough of them to see its all in the technique of who is growing them.
Once transplanted outside, the clone needs totally different care than a seed started plant. It requires a "stump", which the grower must "trick" the plant into making by pruning the plant at a specific time. The plant also needs different nutrients initially than seed started plants. The timing of fruit set also differs, but still is geared around the size of the plant during that period. Vine pruning and plant vine patterns do have considerable effect upon inital fruit growth and final results. Done just right, a 1,000 pounder is likely, but if done wrong, the clone plant acts like a poor gentic of no significant value. A Grower might have had a silver bullet plant and never had known, as you would be surprised to find out just how much pruning and patterning affect fruit growth! This season I really had the chance to experiment and find out how plants respond when grown with different techniques. I am blown away by what I'm finding out {the season isn't over till they get weighed}...................

9/25/2004 10:49:52 AM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

"is the cloning only benificial for males ?"

No... that is one benificial aspect. The clone plant can be used for a specific seed cross using it as the mother genetic. This kind of genetic cross might be the best method to use. Since the grower knows how big the fruits get on the plant which a cutting was taken from, the clones off that plant could produce many, many fruits in a small amount of space. I'll give you an example:
Imagine if Frank Calai had taken cuttings off both the 876 Llyod {the male plant in the 846 seed} and the 801 Stelts {the female plant in the 846 seed}, then kept both plants alive over the winter. The following summer, Calai set aside just 500 SF for both plants. Lets say he gave the male clone plant 100 SF, and the female plants 400 SF{one male and say...8 female plants}. The male plant, if pruned correctly, may produce male flowers all season without ever using all of the 100 SF area. The female plants can grow a single fruit in a 50 SF area {trust me, I know this for fact... I am doing just that!}. So, by seasons end, Calai will have produced 8 pumpkins which all are the exact duplicate genetics of the 846 seeds. These seeds are not "remakes", they would be exactly the same seed gentics as the seeds he pulled out from the 846 fruit!!!
You can figure out the math on what kind of seed amount you'd get from 8 pumpkins... pretty much a life time supply!
Using just 500 SF, this all would be possible by using the clones mainly as female breeders...

I am still in the research stages of this technique, but the potential benefits certainly exist and need to be explored!

9/25/2004 10:50:39 AM