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[email protected]

It's early to start thinking about this. But as anyone who has lost a fruit this year to a split can attest, solutions require knowlege of cause to correct & we need the cause soon.

Percent Base Saturation theory.....I doubt it. I see lot's of soil tests. One patch in 2003 grew 2 1300 pounders & this year, with no major changes, threw splits instead.

Low Calcium......I also doubt this since my own Calcium isn't low & neither were some other growers who had splits.

Fluctuating temperatures....when don't they fluctuate?

Early break-neck growth.........hmmmm.....do not all the vital starches make it to the blossom end? Does the "shell thickness flux" or variation cause unequal load bearing/distribution?

Are pumpkin shells like trees? When they grow too fast & too easyly they produce "weak wood"? It rained a lot last year here in the Northeast. More than this year....

Maybe we need to wait for Topsfield.

9/20/2004 10:18:34 AM

[email protected]

For what it's worth, I'll throw in my 2 cents.
I believe splits are a direct result of relative humidity.
And I'll explain: Last year I split 3 out of 4 and the 4th has a major stem split, but it never went through to the cavity. This year I have maintained the humidity levels at 75% or greater, and last year, the humidity levels fluctuated all over the map. So far this year, I have only had 1 split, and that was planned, believe it or not.
I grow in a controlled environment, (greenhouses) and I have a 723 Bobier plant that had 4 fruit on it. One of the fruit was about 150 lbs and near the back side of the greenhouse, so I put up a poly wall and never watered the area at all for 3 days, on the 4th day I had a blossom end split that went into the cavity. Humidity levels were as follows: Day 1 71%, day 2 59 %, Day 3 42% and on the morning of the split, it was 25%, since then I have removed the barrier and maintained the 75% humidity, and the 3 remaining fruits are doing fine.
Now most growers grow outside, so it could be as easy as having a couple of pails of water under your tarps, the evaporation rate should be enough to raise the levels, or at least help to maintain a constant, or if you want to get more elaborate, a humidifier

9/20/2004 11:53:34 AM

Wichita, KS

I had two splits this year. both of them happend the day after the temperature dipped below 50F overnight, when the daytime temps were in the high 80s. Both split on the same day. They were both small fruit, under 30 days, and were not covered. These were not blossom end splits, stem splits, or rib splits. These split perpendicular to the ribs making the fruit look like pac-man.

I don't know what causes fruit splits. This is all the information I have. Maybe others have information to post to see if there is a common thread?

9/20/2004 11:58:10 AM

[email protected]

Now for the rest of the story.
The east and west coasts are much higher in humidity than the central parts of the country, and i believe this to be a direct result in the size of the fruits, and possibly even heavy to OTT. In the Ohio valley last year, Jerry Rose had a wild and supper year last year because of all the rain, this year he had splits, and it was much drier.
Now you have to understand I am only a second year grower and this is only my theory.
I'd like to find out about the carlson and Beachy fruits that went down and if the humidity levels were eratic.
I also believe as long as the humidity levels around the fruit are maintained, an over abundance of precipitaion shouldn't cause it ti split, After vall they are 95%+ water.

Eddy

9/20/2004 12:03:41 PM

Eugene,OR

I think that many more people are foliar feeding their plants than in past years. Perhaps too much of a good thing, or the wrong thing caused excessive rates of growth and the pumpkin's shoulders simply expanded at a rate faster than the stem grew. My 1230 had a stem split at day 40 after a 44 pound day and a week averaging over 35 lbs per day. I think I'd split too with daily gains like those. How were these daily gains achieved you may be asking? High doses of foliar feeding on a daily basis (Agro-K program and Neptune's Harvest) and genetics which told the pumpkin to grow, grow, grow and grow more.

9/20/2004 12:31:37 PM

Clinton, Iowa

I never touched my patch the past 5 years with any Granular fertilizer...or any of my plants the past 5 years with any Foliar sprays of any kind....I fall prep and the only soil additive I added was a special Gypsum product....I don;t consider this a fert. it is more of a soil amendment to me...
As far as humidity goes....I really can't say..it's outside ...it gets whatever mother nature says it gets as far as that goes..sorry I can't help with that more!!
DAN

9/20/2004 1:04:56 PM

Western Pa.

There sure do seem to have been a lot of split fruit this year. I'm sure weather, water, and feeding all probably contribute, but what about genetics? I only know of one fruit that split from all those grown from the 898 Knauss. Aren't certain crosses more susceptible to splitting than others?

9/20/2004 1:50:19 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

Very Interesting! Keep the theories coming.

Doug

9/20/2004 1:54:27 PM

Cheyenne, Wyoming

In Cheyenne, we rarely if ever see a pumpkin split. We have a dry climate. Our relative humidity can be 15% or so. We don't get pumpkins that grow extremely fast. This would lead me to believe the problem with splits lies more with accellerated growth rates, not low humidity.

9/20/2004 1:56:51 PM

Circleville Ohio USA

Blossum splits may be a combination a genetical thin blossum end and that unwanted 3 to 5 inch rain. Another consideration could be its general shape, do long and low fruits tend to split with a greater frequency than the high back round fruits? I beleive they do.

9/20/2004 3:09:44 PM

North Ga

growing too fast.

9/20/2004 4:39:46 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

My 898 Knauss split this year at 217# Est.....I believe it was from #1) sitting on it's blossom end mainly, and #2) too fast growth from the extremely high nutrient levels in my soil amendments.

9/20/2004 6:29:23 PM

Mt.Pleasant,Iowa

Looked at my diary at home and it was 82 degrees and low humidity. The pumpkin was gaining 20 some pounds a day and showed no signs of trouble.The pumpkin was 40 inches tall at the time it split and had hardly any rain for 4 days.Too much top weight for blossom end to handle? Need a sling to hold the weight off the blossom end and stem.Has anyone tried to help support the weight as it grew or is it impossible?

9/20/2004 6:59:11 PM

Rhode Island

I THINK LIKE SEVERAL OTHERS THAT ITS A COMBINATION OF GENETIC TRAITS AND UPWARD SPIKES IN THE WEATHER PATTERN
EXAMPLE ----- IN 11 YEARS OF SERIOUS GROWING MY SON AND I BEFORE THIS YEAR HAD ONLY HAD A COUPLE BLOSSOM AND/OR STEM SPLITS
THIS YEAR WE LOST 3, WITH TWO OF THEM GOING ON THE SAME MORNING AFTER A VERY COLD SPELL OF THREE DAYS HAD PASSED

( THEY LOOKED GOOD WHEN I TOOK THE BLANKETS OFF AT 7 AM AND BY NOON BOTH WERE GONE ) BOTH FRUIT WERE THE LOW BARREL TYPE AND DOING 22 TO 25 LBS PER DAY---- I ATTRIBUTE BOTH OF THESE SPLITS TO THE SHARP CHANGE FROM HOT TO COLD BACK TO HOT AGAIN )

WE LOST THE 723 FRUIT AT 953 WITH A BLOSSOM SPLIT -------- SEVERAL PEOPLE HAVE LOST THIS SEED STOCK TO A HOST OF THINGS
WE HAVE PLANTED IT 4 YEARS IN A ROW AND ONLY GOT ONE TO FINISH THE SEASON------THIS IS A EXAMPLE OF WHAT I WOULD CALL A FLAW IN THE GENETIC MAKE UP OF THIS CROSS

I ALSO BELIEVE THAT AS THE BAR GETS RAISED HIGHER AND HIGHER WE ARE GOING TO SEE MORE AND MORE STORIES OF LARGE PUMPKINS THAT GO DOWN BEFORE THEIR TIME
WE ARE GROWING WHAT I BELIEVE IS A " FREAK OF NATURE " AND WE ARE OFEN CROSS BREEDING WITHIN THE SAME FAMILY---- THINK ABOUT THAT FOR A MINUTE ( EVER SEE AN EARLESS RABBIT FROM CROSS BREEDING MOM AND HER OFFSPRING ) L O L

PAP

9/20/2004 8:34:09 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

I think we should blame the splits on George Bush...:) seems they blame him for everything else..

9/20/2004 9:01:16 PM

Kenyon, Mn.

possibly a potpourri of chemicals, now I ain't bashin', just askin' and suggesting you all take a look at what possible combinations were used by those affected.We had monsoon rains, followed by dry spells, then more rain and HEAT followed by cold nights, I do Not believe any of these caused the problem, and then, it could just be genetic

9/20/2004 9:34:43 PM

Brillion Wisconsin

This is one of my newest theories on splits. I have been contemplating about this ever since disecting and examining culls and culled female flowers.

Have you ever taken a female flower or early cull and slice it in half? Notice how the interior sections of the pumpkin line up perfectly with the lobes inside the female flower. Just like a pealed orange each section has its own seeds and is contected to a adjoining sections to form the entire pumpkin.

This contective tissue could be the weak link if not properly stacked.

What I'm getting at is the relationship of these sections or ovaries to the ground on which the fruit lies. For instance a 5 lobed female left to grow has a couple of differant resting positions once it touches the ground. One possibility would be have 2 sections supporting the other 2 sections with the 5th section at the top. This could be represented like a 5 pointed star resting on its bottom 2 points.

Another possibility for a 5 lobed female is to come to rest with 3 sections touching the ground supporting the other 2. The top of the star pattern would now be at the bottom rather than the top.

4 and 6 lobe females each have unique possibilities of how they would come to lay down and maybe build a stronger pumpkin in doing so.

Could most rib splits be the result of seperation of ovary sections due to improper position on the ground?

Decisions on which fruit to go with could include ovary position. One could try twisting the pollinated female or young pumpkin for optimum position and even load distribution to prevent the structure from failing.

just a crazy thought

9/20/2004 11:49:26 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

There are actually many factors,I think everyone has pointed out things worth researching further upon. I see no reason why all of the above meantioned reasons are reasons why fruits split. I must add in yet one more myself...such as temperature effect upon the fruits micro-climate areas. There are areas of the fruit that get no sun or heating, and those areas stay ice cold. The heat vs cool areas of the fruit are pressure points. The difference of temperature from cold to warm meet up somewhere, and the warm area will be growing while the cold area won't. This is another observation I'd like to point out...
This is not the only reason, but one of many variables which can affect outcome of a fuit, like soil temp factors, nutrient variables and changes, drastic moisture
levels, effects caused by pruning techniques, genetic factors, and everything listed above! Good topic, love to hear some more thoughts on this one....

9/21/2004 1:37:27 AM

Colo.Spgs.CO. Pikes Peak Chapter @ [email protected]

Splits, I wonder if it is all of the signals being bounced off of the planet this season by the military....lol.As it has been a very active year when it comes to strange levels of waves radiated from communication devices....lol..Probably a record year on the most part worldwide for strange signals for which many plants my hear and see more than people. People ( civilians ) are also generating this pollution of waves we can not see in unprecendented levels also. Wondering the effects,,,,cable routers, remote modems, all the above,,,Wonder how this affects plants which are way more sensitive than us, But highly adaptable as we are also.....effects on plants........:-)....:-(....????

9/21/2004 5:30:13 AM

[email protected]

Lobe orientation? Wow. That's a new one.....Interesting idea I think......If nothing else, rotating a fruit a few degrees (early on) would impact where the load bearing occurs later in the season. It would also alter where & how weight bears on ribbing too.......

......Maybe there is a "prime configuration" we don't know about yet. I'm not saying this is the end-all to the issue. But it's worthy of discussion.

I agree with Marc that we are dealing with many factors that can culminate into one catostrophic event if all the planets & moons align.

I did install a wireless router this year....maybe that was it.

After all the hail in CO & all these Atlantic basin hurricanes, I'm inclined to believe that many of these factors are in play but primarily driven by weather. Heck we didn't even have an April frost here in Stratford this year.

9/21/2004 7:14:38 AM

Edmonton, Canada

Great thread!!! Just throwing my 2 cents in.... It can't just be rapid growth that causes splits. I have 2 fruit that are at 175, and 80 pounds. Both of them have split, and neither of them were growing fast at all. The temps have been really cool here, especially at night, and I'm pretty sure that had an effect.

9/21/2004 10:19:13 AM

Sequim, WA

I think there are a number of factors, genetic primarily, but also the temperature swings and differential heating of the fruit, one side getting sun while the other stays in the shade. Heavy rains, nutrient surges, all of the above. The lobe positioning is an interesting theory that I had not considered before. Perhaps tidal influences as well? Has anyone made note of what phase the moon is in when these splits occur? If the moon can lift the entire oceans even these big pumpkins can feel the affect. Genetics is #1 on my list though. If we plant seeds from splitters, we're more likely to get splitters. All those UOW and DMG's in the family tree should be a red flag for us as growers. Sure the 723 Bobier has grown a lot of monsters, but there is a UOW at the end of that seed name and it has found a prominant place among the family tree's of the seed stocks that are currently in high demand. If we don't want to run the risk of losing our efforts to a split this is the first thing we should be looking at.

9/21/2004 1:41:29 PM

Western Pa.

Tiller,

Thank you for your support!

kilr

9/21/2004 2:00:51 PM

Sequim, WA

Your welcome Jim.

9/21/2004 2:34:59 PM

Ontario, Canada.

No magic bullet. From kahunas grassy noll, I believe it is genetics combined with cool weather and others factors such as the CEC Cation Exchange Capacity, Calcium uptake and increased nitrogen usage.

Theories

1. Genetics we know what a 1260 or 898 offspring does.

2. Calcium, uptake is generally genetically controlled. Any factor that limits the uptake of calcium predisposes plants to physiological disorders. This can be genetic or environmental.

3. The higher CEC the greater the content of clay the higher the calcium level to the fruit. Balanced soil with high calcium as much as 90% could help resolve troublesome blossom end splits.

4. Cool & dry weather can possibly shut down a plant just long enough that it begins to produce etheylene gas and harden the fast growing fruit. As warmth and moisture enters back into the patch the fruit has lost its prior elasticity.

5. Nitrate nitrogen tends to accumulate in the leaves and increase organic acid production, which increases the demand for Calcium to neutralize the acidity, if calcium is in short supply can calcium be mobilized from the fruit? If so are we hurting the plant by feeding it foliar? Lots of splits occur after foliar fert applications. Many stories of large pumpkins this year coming from growers who did not supplement with foliar ferts.

9/21/2004 2:47:10 PM

Western NY

hmmm, i had 4 stem splits (one fatal), and one blossom end split (fatal) this year. this was more than ever before in a single year.

1. genetics- the blossom end split will probably be seen again if i plant that seed again. i think it will have thin ends on it.

2. i did more foliar this year than ever before, but it really wasn't a lot.

3. calcium- mine's jacked up pretty good. calcium can strengthen the stem, vines, and shell. does too much make them brittle?

4. weather- horribly cool summer. i never really had fast growth rates. the one thing that has saved me was a warm september. it has kept things going a little longer than normal i think.

who knows? i'm really only planning on blaming the seed in 2 out of the 4 plants. but, i am glad i decided to keep 2 fruit on every plant this year!

9/21/2004 3:26:40 PM

ontario

my fruits that split were due to two factors......1. growing at a very fast pace ....2. heavy rain followed by above normal heat for that time.....not real hot but say 5 degrees warmer than the two previous days..... some fruits just have that in their make-up

9/21/2004 6:46:45 PM

[email protected]

Genetics?........I had two fruit on what is supposed to be an easy grower go down to splits...one stem end, the other blossom end.....the blossom split did happened on a warming trend...842 Eaton.

Another close by grower had splits on 846 Calai & 723 Bobier & other long desired & proven genetics. Unless these top performing growers are thus also prone to splits given the correct set of "other conditions".

Our 845 Bobier cutting has a late set on it still that didn't split, so the later set fruit may not have felt some critical environmental factor the others did have trouble with.

I wouldn't be too quick to discard lunar phases. No more than I would the low pressure fronts that advance a storm.

9/21/2004 6:56:24 PM