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Clinton, Iowa

I was entertaining a fellow grower this past weekend (Greg Sliwka) and posed a question. What is the make up of the inside of a perfectly sound pumpkin. I am talking about what is the gases that make up the air space inside a fruit.?? any thoughts anyone ?
DAN CARLSON

9/5/2004 6:52:52 AM

Saugerties N. Y.

I dont think there are any gases in a sound pumpkin, but if it splits and a single fruit fly gets in there your going to have to have more gas and oooz than your local landfill.

9/5/2004 7:52:22 AM

Saugerties N. Y.

Hey carlson did you weigh your monster pumpkin.

9/5/2004 7:53:47 AM

Carrollton, Ga.

Dan,
A few years ago there was a discussion on the mallorn list about this. I don't know how to find it though. That is a huge pumpkin you have there.
Doug

9/5/2004 8:23:43 AM

San Diego, Ca.

If you have a pumpkin that goes light then it has helium in it. So if you think your monster may go light you better tie a rope to it so it don't float away!
Seriously, I was wondering the same thing.

9/5/2004 4:48:49 PM

Clinton, Iowa

I have pondered this question for a long time.....Could be Oxygen mixed with other things typically found in the air we breath BUT since it was in a perfectly sealed fruit...no holes and such..that is is a sterile enviorment and no bacterial and or other nasty are present..Just food for thought ....I truely don;t know..BUT there has to be something in there doesn't there??
As far as weighing...."the monster".....we thought we would this monday..(tomorrow) but we are still growing...as of saturday noon. we stood at 410"..so we think we may try and weigh on th evine and then set her back down....it would give us a ball park figure..nothing "official " but something close..?? what do you think??

9/5/2004 9:19:48 PM

Whidbey Island

I would not weigh anything on the vine. What if you snapped your stem or vine with several weeks to go?

9/5/2004 9:27:52 PM

Saugerties N. Y.

I wouldnt weigh her untill she is done growing for sure,
BUT I would keep a very close eye on her especially if she has a split, My friend had a 700lb friut with alittle split
that seemed fine then it blew out quick too quick to weigh . That would be a shame if that happened to you.
tough one.

9/5/2004 9:47:37 PM

San Diego, Ca.

Dan, by lifting your pumpkin you might put stresses on the pumpkin that are different from the stresses it has as it sits in your patch and possibly cause the split to open up.
Let her finish growing.
Got me thinking again about the space inside the pumpkin... it must be oxygen that the plant creates doing its normal functions but interesting that when you stick a knife into the pumpkin you don't hear a big sucking sound from vacuum like when you open up a can. You would think as it grows that negative air pressure would be created. Man, we really are crazy...trying to figure out what in the void. ;-)
My 2 cents. Vince

9/5/2004 10:07:55 PM

Clinton, Iowa

well i guess that is why a guy ask questions. To get others perspectives on what they think or would do. If you were worried obout problems lifting it stressing it causing damage. all that is still going to happen you you take it to weigh it officially anyways? what is the differnce. I think it is worth the risk and still plan on doing it . I would feel worse if it went south and I never got a chance to actually know what it weighed. This way you get areal close idea where we stand. AND we leave it on and hope we keep it to show her off as a "damaged" fruit...I hate th eterm unofficial weight. What is with that term? It can be official as long as the scale is certified and witnessed by others. ANyways Thanks for th einput.

9/5/2004 11:14:34 PM

Clinton, Iowa

forgot to mention. On something this large it is very hard to tell if the thing is growing.It looks and feels sound.Trust me I push and poke on th ething 3 times a day. The split appears fine. I have never actualy seen it..Just about 1/8" of th etop corner is all I have laid eyes on. I am more afraid of a sudden problem to show up and not beable to pick it to weigh it. THAT would be tough to swallow....this way I get a little piece of mind anyway. After all.....if it is a 150 pounds light. it becomes just anothe rhuge fruit that went really light. then it won't really matter if I lose it in the patch and don't get it to a certified scale!! just my thought process!!'Thanks

9/5/2004 11:19:40 PM

Indiana

Dan, Can you find anyone with an inline scale? We lifted my 878.5 3 times before actually cutting it. The fruit I see in the pics is very sound structurally, and it will handle being lifted without damage. Tripod, chain hoist, Frantz's lifter, and an inline scale will tell the tale. take a pic of the digital readout for me. be sure to zero the scale before you lift....I made that mistake my first time....doh...LOL

Tom

9/6/2004 12:59:52 AM

Ulster County, NY

Dan,
If your split went into the cavity, rest assured it is rotting from the inside out right now. It will look good for up to two to three weeks after the split developed then BAM. I would definitely try to weigh it if that was the circumstance.

9/6/2004 9:47:40 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

Dan, I have to agree. I would get a weight as soon as possible with the technique Tom described.

The pumpkin might burst day. If you use Tom's method you can keep it on the vine and if it keeps growing and stays healthy you can still weigh it again at a weighoff later.

Martin

9/6/2004 10:32:29 AM

Cologne / Germany

Have to agree with Martin. You don´t now what´s going on inside a "splitter". If some sort of "dissolving" process is on the way, it might get lighter in the next weeks. Perhaps you use a caravan weight control, these units are pretty small and flat (they are placed under the tires) so you don´t need to raise the pumpkin that much with the vine attached.

9/6/2004 10:51:12 AM

Clinton, Iowa

WHat I am asking now..or saying..IF a person catches a splitter..AS IT SPLITS...and caulks it up ahead of the crack..does the fruit even know it is split..does the decay begin. IF the fruit never gets Air into the cavity...HOW long can a frut continue to grow if it is decaying? Our split at day 45...370 inches..the crack contnued to stretch out and Marc continued to caulk ahead of it...... Honestly I don't even know "for a fact" that is goes thru ..I have never laid eyes on it ....here we sit now....day 67...410 inches.....is that th esigns of a fruit on the verge of collaps?? I am not saying it is or isnt;....and when it stops..(which we think it has) we will cut and weigh it....Just to be safe....BUT is 350 pounds of growth normal for a fruit like this to do "if it is decaying inside.....?/ just more food for thought boys....it is a learning experience for us here also..we like everyone else want it weighed.....but we don;t want to take it early either.....Fine line we walk here isn't it!!

9/6/2004 10:20:07 PM

Indiana

mine stopped 10 days after it split, and dad caulked it immediately

Tom

9/6/2004 10:49:14 PM

White Plains, NY

what happened to the subject matter???????????

9/7/2004 8:44:45 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Gases Yes...I believe they contain a fair amount of gas and a bit of pressure. As most splits occur in mid afternoon. It seams to me as if expasion of this gas causes the pumpkin to split at the weakest point.

9/7/2004 9:15:53 AM

[email protected]

This thread confirms our suspicion. We have absolutely no idea whether the void within is the same as out atmosphere or if there is a change of gasses relative to growth.

If I were to go out on a limb & guess, I'd say the gasses are similar in compsition to our atmosphere but higher in Co2. It's just a guess, but it stands to reason.

9/7/2004 9:45:36 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

All right who is going to fork out the big bucks to do this study. My question is why do some of you think there is pressure inside. I think it is more likely a low vacuum created as it grows. Dont make me bring one of these things to the 3M lab for a chemical composition of the inert gases contained. Along with the pressure inside before and after a sound cavity is comprimised.

9/7/2004 10:04:45 AM

Western NY

on topic- i think tremor is right. it would be cool if it was pure o2 in there for some reason. there would have to be no smoking signs at pumpkin farms!

on to danny's question about the crack -

tim bailey caught his 1245 cracking when it was only about 1000 pounds. sealed it up as soon as it split, and kept caulking ahead of the split. it lasted until halloween, not a touch of rot. i think it had a lot to do with the pumpkin itself being very healthy, even though the split went all the way through into the cavity. i had one do that to me this year. keep caulking ahead of the split, and you should be fine. i picked mine 2 weeks ago, and is currently being refrigerated.

9/7/2004 10:12:18 AM

Edmonton, Canada

There must be something inside. A vacuum would cause the fruit to collapse onto itself. Is there any way the fruit could breathe? Quite often, the fruit can "ooze" moisture. Maybe that can work both ways.

9/7/2004 10:29:12 AM

[email protected]

Fruit ooze (Phloem exudate) only where the conductive tissue designed to carry or store the sap are breached. Since expansion of the fruit creates strees comdined with the increasing stress of gravity, stems, shells, & vines may crack under these stresses. We may even witness fingernail, measuring tape, or small bird or animal caused slices in the outer skin. I don't think any of these issues are related to positive (or negative) pressure within the fruit.

The positive pressure we perceive to regulate the flow of sap in the phloem (from a breach) is not as simple air escaping from an innertube. Intercellular protein transfers occur all along the way of vasular transport & help cause the "push" or movement of sap.

All higher plants have vascular systems that behave in a similar way. Lot's of cool stuff is published at the various edu's & can be found with some 'googling".

Here's a good one:

http://www-plb.ucdavis.edu/labs/Lucas/pdfs/979.pdf

9/7/2004 11:06:15 AM

Ontario

Another question i let you ponder is it actually still growing or is it sagging making the estimates larger. Weigh her on vine and see later.

drew

9/7/2004 3:00:09 PM

Indiana

If you dont know if the crack went thru to the cavity and its still growing I wouldnt mess with it You could blow a world record.(24 days and counting)

9/8/2004 9:40:33 AM

Deer Park, WI

My take on the issue- i have an inkling its mostly CO2, some oxygen. Here's why- growing tissues undergo "Dark Respiration" basically the opposite reaction of Photosynthesis. Respiration is using the energy produced by photosynthesis to make the structure of the growing fruit. This reaction gives off CO2 and uses oxygen. Its also been scientifically shown that fruit skin is fairly permeable to gases, especially CO2. Given that, i dont think there is much of a pressure gradient inside the cavity of the fruit. I beleive there is good pressure balance between the atmosphere and the fruit cavity.

9/8/2004 9:49:34 AM