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New York

Okay, Casey mentioned the all to familiar north and south blossom split...or up and down instead of east and west. This is my 20th season growing and I don't believe I've ever seen a east/west split. Why is this?
A simple matter of gravity? Does gravity create enough downward pressure to prevent this from happening? And like the weakest link in a chain, the split takes the path of least resistance and pulls out from the sides?
Would growing a round fruit on it's stem create more even pressure on the blossom and perhaps save it?
Could some kind of device be built to apply pressure against the sides of the fruit as it's growing? It would have to be strong as these pumpkins are capable of pushing a lot of weight during natural growth. Some sort of metal device that can slowly be unscrewed to lower pressure on a daily basis? I'm not talking wood or sand here.
Anyone who has a pumpkin going over 30 a day has 2 thoughts....
"Wow this could be a good one" and "oh no, hope it's not growing too fast". Perhaps some kind of preventive measures can be taken to at least "help" even the odds a little....instead of a person doing things to SLOW growth like cutting vines, not watering, setting more fruit...I HATE THAT. Maybe these thoughts aren't pratical. Much of what we do isn't pratical to the normal person anyway so why not keep going.

8/27/2004 12:31:42 AM

Indiana

Very good point Alan. I believe gravity is the answer to your question. Cut an orange in half, both sides flop out meaning the pressure of one half is pulling away from the other. cut one in half the other way(parallel to the surface it is setting on), if the orange is balanced, it will stay on top and not fall off

Tom

8/27/2004 12:45:45 AM

Key West, FL

hmmm, very interesting, maybe set the pumpkin in a basin type thing with it sloping up to both sides a little?

8/27/2004 1:18:19 AM

Puyallup, WA

Ah-haaa....a giant pumpkin "vise"! Now that would be a sight!

8/27/2004 1:45:01 AM

[email protected]

People use vegetable molds to create faces, shapes, and such, why not something like this. Lets take a good sized bath tub, for example. It wouldnt make the prettiest fruit in the world, but... it would support the sides, create drainage, and give you the protection from the ground and animals. It would have to be something modifiable, but in that area. The pumpkin would grow out to the sides, then long to the ends, and rise upwards, instead of outwards, which seemingly is where this problem is.

Heck, if it works, you could also enter it into the pumpkin boat races and have the only multi person pumpkin in town!

8/27/2004 6:50:28 AM

Brillion Wisconsin

Very interesting idea, my vision of this device would be a pressure relieving sling made of nylon straps.

Picture lengths of seatbelt material parallel to each other. These lengths would wrap around the pumpkin and be conected with turn buckle device which could be backed off a few turns daily. These main straps would be conected to each other every few inches around the diameter and adjustable for the curvature of the pumpkin.

An additional set of straps could be placed under the fruit to make the job of lifting your giant a lot easier.

This might become one of my winter projects. Far less expensive than building a vacuum dome around your fruit.

8/27/2004 8:41:14 AM

Halifax, Nova Scotia

Speaking of trying to shape a vegetable, I have been discussing my dreams of paddling a large pumpkin down a lake with some of the Engineers at work, and as Engineers, they can't leave well enough alone. They have asked if it is poosible to build a frame around a growing pumpkin to force it into a kayak or canoe shape. I think it would work, if the frame was strong enough to resist growth in certain directins without forcing too much growth in others (leading to splits). Also, would it be possibleto shape a young pumpkin, then remove the frame and allow it to grow free, hopefully maintaining the original shape?

These guys had some other ideas too, those in Windsor for next years Pumpkin Regatta might want to keep an eye out for a VW Beetle powered pumpkin!

8/27/2004 9:20:10 AM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

I've thought the same thing... one idea is some kind of bungy holding device with links to add as you go additional bungy links as the fruit grows. Now... who is the engineer here in BP's?

8/27/2004 9:34:29 AM

Aldie, VA

Hey, Rock

For a Hallowe'en AG you could buy or make a pine box that is coffin-shaped and grow it in there.

Nice seasonal shape :)

Sowwy!
Roan

8/27/2004 10:04:47 AM

Cologne / Germany

Do a google search for "air jack". Seems to be the stuff we´re looking for in this thread :-)

8/27/2004 10:51:45 AM

Indiana

pantyhose like stuff.....

8/27/2004 11:05:49 AM

Northern Cambria, Pa.

Some growers clain that tilting the pumpkin back slightly toward the stem side will help prevent splits. Tony Ciliberto for one grew a couple big ones using this technique.

8/27/2004 2:11:12 PM

[email protected]

I think I see an adjustable growth girdle in our futures here folks. One that exhibits near equal tension on the sides that gravity & mass exhibit on the bottom?

8/27/2004 2:54:06 PM

Rhode Island

ive ramped our pumpkins in the past if the stem was short or at a bad angle and have never had one blow
having said that though i dont believe anything can be done to stop a stem from splitting ( north south )
my 805 pukos split just after the cold spell passed and when i cut it up for disposal it was 8 to ten inches thick at the blossem ( so i think this one just didnt have the right stuff of champions )
but hell ill try anything once
how about some plaster cast bandage applied around her back end ?

8/27/2004 7:14:21 PM

[email protected]

Our worst splits are all horizontal which in my books sounds like East by West. These are on the stem end.
\
I guess the "split affected" need to get out tomorrow after first light & take some pictures. Post them to either a gallery or a diary & we need a new thread titled

"SHOW OFF YOUR CRACK" so we all have a clue. LOL, but I am serious.

8/27/2004 9:36:29 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

....why not......

"PUMPKINS ON CRACK"?

LMAO... LMAO !!!!

8/27/2004 10:47:25 PM

Halifax, Nova Scotia

I don't know exactly what they do, but at work here we have a department full of people doing stress analysis models to predict the areas of weaknesses on aircraft. I'll have a talk with a few of them on Monday, if it's at all possible to develop a model of an average AG they could then use that to determine the areas of weakness and predict the effect of bracing in certain areas. If they can do anything for me I'll let everyone know, we would likely need a good bit of data on the skin and wall thickness and stuff like that.

8/27/2004 11:06:10 PM

[email protected]

OMG! We can actually elevate the science of AG growing to the status of rocket science!

8/28/2004 12:09:08 AM

In the shade - PDX, OR

SHOW OFF YOUR CRACK - Never thought I'd see that here.

LOL!

Maybe I'll post some crack shots....

8/28/2004 1:23:18 AM

Rhode Island

WE CAN HAVE A CRACK STUDY AND CALL IT " SHOW US YOUR CRACK "

8/28/2004 6:10:20 AM

Joliet, IL

crack kills. my blossum end split was east west with
2 identical splits on each side of the blossum.
at 3 o'clock and 9 o'clock. damn its funny that you
guys have been thinking along the same lines as myself.
i had a very slow day yesterday at work and did some serious
damage to my brain thinking a little too hard. so for what its worth, here it goes.

1. Jacks. could positioned jacks be placed on angles
around the exterior of the pumpkin after the kin reaches
35 days old. 2 leaning on an angle upwards on the shoulders
on the stem side. 2 leaning on an angle upward on the
sides, and one positioned directly behind the blossum end
angled and positioned against upward directly over the
blossum but not too close. attached to these jacks could
be small chinese wok like supports what would be lined
with a non abrasive insulation like thin flexible styrofome
with a foam rubber between the metal support circle
and the styrofome. the idea is to have more surface area
where the supports touch the pumpkin do avoid point loading
stress. imagine 5 arms from the elbow to the hand tilting
on an angle applying upward support at points encircling
the kin. this could be modified to have all the
points of support connected together with straps the
encircle the pumpkin to provide a uniform upward support.
either way, the jacks must be able to be adjusted as
all points of the kin grow. so now the jacks are in place,
providing good support from day 30 through 55 or 60 with continual udjustments being made through out the growth
process. at this time start slowly reducing the support
tension over the next 10 or 15 days until there is no
support to let the already soundly split free pumpkin
finish maturing and strenghtening without the supports.

8/28/2004 1:03:41 PM

Joliet, IL

2 .a natural pumpkin split curing remedy in a jar.

has anyone ever harvested surface sap weeping by
placeing half moon metal collection circles at numerous
points of a maturing non competion AG to collect induced
or natural leaking sap. would this stuff be able to
retain its healing qualities if immediately frozen, stored,
and then defrosted and used when needed, with plenty
to spare for bigger untimely splits. this pumpkin sap
caulk could be handy if this actually worked and
someone with ambition and money sense could profit
greatly if it could be sold like maple syrup in a jar.
i would think it would be worth a try for someone
that grows more than 3 plants in his backyard and had
enough expendible pumpkins for the collection process.

8/28/2004 1:04:11 PM

Joliet, IL

would freshly weeped sap from a pine or maple or
blue spruce tree work similar as the pumpkin sap
for crack healing.

3. do splits occur due to cell wall formation being
affected by colder temps? i would think that the
splits that start internally and eventually show up
at the surface may be caused by growth being retarded
and then activated after a cold spell. it would be similar
to a cold joint in concrete. if concrete is allowed
to set up for over 90 minutes and then more freshly poured
concrete is placed next to the semi cured concrete,
a cold joint forms. this structure has now lost its
structural integrity and this cold joint is a weak point.
when downward pressre is placed on this structure, the
failure will take place at this cold joint. this
sounds like it may be the reason for splits or at
least part of the problem. blossum end cell wall
studies would need to be performed on splits and non
split blossum ends to compare the cell structures.

4. compressive strength testing on sound pumpkins.

has anyone ever used downward forced pressure to analyze
the first point of failure on AGs. this would be interesting comparing non supported(jack-less) pumpkins
with supported pumpkins to see the amount of weight or
load each takes before splitting. i would guess the
supported pumpkins with upward angled side jacks would
be able to withstand a greater downward forced pressure
than a non supported kin.

like i said, i had a lot of time on my hands yesterday.
just some more rambling thoughts from a pumpkin junky.

8/28/2004 1:28:58 PM

Belgium Europe

How about this : digging a hole under the pumpkin when you decide it a keeper.Fill the hole up with.... a material that is squeezable(is that english?)some kind of foam or foam chips(like used for packing things). As the pumpkin gains weight it can squeeze more and more the foam and fill the hole.The hole must be made according to the size you expect the pumpkin can reach. As i'm not english-speaking i hope you can understand my explanation. What do you think?

8/28/2004 3:49:56 PM

Cologne / Germany

You are right Jos. And then you just need to put your air jack before. The air jack I mean is the inflatable bag type. Holds 2 tons and can be adjusted every time. Available for 29 bucks over here.

8/28/2004 6:22:52 PM

Belgium Europe

lol... jos

8/28/2004 6:49:03 PM