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Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

This is kind of an extention of Tremors post on blossom splits. What I've noticed over the years was that...yes... certain genetics favor splitting, but only when conditions dictate for the plant to do so, and when conditions are just right. What I'm wondering is which conditions others have noticed to be the most favorable for fruit splits?

I grew the clone of the plant that grew Joe Scherbers 1009 state record {746 Scherber}, and sent others cuttings of that plant via the mail. Nobody but me had problems with splits, but mine had a bad stem split that tore fast, a reason why I cut it off early. Tom B. had different results, no splits, but his fruit was squash green {mine and others mainly orange}. Others that participated all had similar results to one another, but that makes me think certain conditions cause the plant to respond differently that what it normally would. The fact my fruit wanted to split while nobody else's would makes me wonder how much the environmental factors play into splits.

Here are a few possibilities:

Too much N at the wrong time...
Too much water at the wrong time...
Too much heat following a cool spell...
Too much sun following cloudy days...
too warm of soil ,maybe after severe pruning
Too high of a sodium/ salt content in soil or in leaves...
Too much pruning at the wrong time/ lack of growth shoots...
Wrong position of fruit causing it to grow unproportional...
Imbalance in soil nutrients or drastic change in PH...
Humidity too low causing fruit to be less elastic...
Leaves too brittle or old looking due to early problems...
Lack of new leaves causing imbalance in growth habits...

There are other possibilities, I'm sure, that others have thought about. I'd love to hear opinions on this, maybe there is something we could look out for and prevent before it's too late..?

8/26/2004 12:25:40 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

My 746 clone had old/ brittle leaves at the time the split was getting bad and starting to split into the fruit part. I think perhaps my addition of gypsum early July might have been a reason {?}, as after that point the leaves soon developed "salty" looking leaves, which soon were brittle and old in appearance. It was right at that time when the split began. This affected my 1026 I also grew next to it, but rather than the fruit split bad {it also had small "rips" initially}, the plant sort of shut down, and the vines threw tons of suckers out while fruit growth slowed.
I have managed to be the only one who could keep a 1064 Needham together too with no rips or splits. I credit that to keeping the plant small {400 sf}, and dead heading the plant at the time of fruits sets... I did leave a side shoot on though, and I'd let it grow out one leaf node, then I'd prune it again. I did this all the way up to harvest time. Was that method a reason for my success? Probably not, but maybe so.
Has anyone tried or noticed something similar? What seems to be the most common splitting factor? Too much N and too much rain, or is it perhaps something else?
Steve has a good suggestion about measuring blossom thickness on splitters, hopefully so growers can "breed out" those with such traits {?} Genetics surely play a part, but my clone plant showed me there are definately other factors that contribute. Question is... which ones...

8/26/2004 12:47:12 PM

Utah

The technical answer is...
A appied load creates stress that is greater than the strength (yeild stress) of material.
... but the real world answer is more along the lines of what you are saying.
I think it is genetics in compbination with too much water and soil nutrienets.

8/26/2004 12:55:55 PM

Eugene, OR

LOL. Now that's my kind of answer. If you really want to get technical.... If it were it only yielding, it would not fracture. A material will safely yield up to its elastic limit, then reach plastic deformation and eventually fail. Sounds more like you hit the ultimate strength of the material if you actually see a fracture/structural failure. We want it to yield!

But regarding the actual question, I guess I would have to say the shape of the pumpkin, lack of calcium, and a genetic predisposition to be thin at the blossom end. That's my rookie guess anyway. :-)

8/26/2004 1:05:50 PM

Cologne / Germany

Cold weather, heavy rainfall, hot sunny intervals - everything that interferes with the "normal" development of the fruit during peak growth. Like many of us have this year. Just my two cents.

8/26/2004 1:32:45 PM

Brillion Wisconsin

Good topic and the perfect time of year to discuss it. As most of my splits occur between the middle of August and early Sept.

One would have to categorize the 3 main types of pumpkin splits and form a hypothesis for each. Stem end, blossum end and dill ring splits could be the catagories. I 'm starting to beleive that each type of split is unique but they all share similar aspects.

Stem end splits: a rapid growth spert combined with vine/stem stress.

Blossom end splits: genetic and/or lack of cetain nutrients

Dill ring splits/rib split: genetic and/or inconsistant moisture levels.

Will over fertilization split every genetic line?

I have experienced all three over the past few years and would say the dill ring split is the most devistating- season ending split followed by the blossom end split.

and would'nt ya know it I discovered a stem split on my 1097 Beachy fruit a few days ago. Its 2 inches deep on either side of the stem. I patched her up and it has not split any wider the last few days. I'm keeping my fingers crossed. Dean o

8/26/2004 2:43:46 PM

Wisconsin

I would say bad luck more than operator error or maybe just the inherent risk with what we are trying to do. We are trying to grow a naturally hollow fruit to very extreme sizes. The only chance we have is if the plant adds wall thickness uniformly throughtout the entire sphere.

I think it is just part of the game. Of course one can shift the odds a little by choosing pumpkin strains without deep ribs, watering consistantly, praying, etc..

8/26/2004 3:37:17 PM

Joliet, IL

i had a blossum end split after the first two 90 degree
temps all year preceeded by a colder than average week
of temps with some temps in the high 40s at night.
then 3" of rain fell following the 90 temp days and
the blossum end split on both sides of the blossum.
the blossum end was in the process of receeding deep
inside the kin, like finding the belly button knot
on a beer belly. in this case i believe that the
shape of the pumpkin was in combination with the
weather factors in causing the split. my dill ring
split ran across the rib lines and happened due
to being only 1" thick in an area that had to support
a lot of weight in the center back half of the kin.
it too happened after the big cold spell of 45 degree
temp nights. inconsistent weather will take down the
weakest point of the kin is my guess why splits happen.
having to water with cold higher ph tap water during the rapid growth periods from day 20 on for both pumpkins may have contributed the failures. the rains shut off here
on july 9th until recently for most part, and the growth from both pumpkins came mostly from Joliet city water,
which is not the best stuff around. next year its
rainwater collecting or warm ph adjusted water for
the kins with a big ass tank to be purchased this winter
to be pumped to the overhead watering system.

8/26/2004 5:18:19 PM

Ulster County, NY

Floh & shazzy are right on. Cool nights for most of july ans August. lots of water in hte northeast. Then, bam, hot and humid. Not predicatable, but not a surprise either. Check out my big splitter in the Ball4 diary entry.

8/26/2004 8:36:09 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

What prayer are you chanting Jim? I think we should just say "Splits Happen".

8/26/2004 10:32:45 PM

[email protected]

Rapid temperature changes &/or uneven thermal distribution (as Tom pointed out) certainly does impact our fruit. It dawned on me tonight that our splitting leaker 842's stem end is facing the setting sun and due to my poor planning (or laziness) was feeling the full brunt of it during the time the splits ocurred. Another environmental factor that may have impacted the situation is one of timing. My misters are off by the time the sun was sneaking under the shade structure. So while the ambient air temperature has dropped around the fruit, the actual skin temperature at the stem was probably much higher. Other factors such as a varying growth rate have a lot to do with my situation, but the splits have declined since correcting the late day sun issue. Growth has slowed too so this theory can be easily picked apart.

8/26/2004 10:34:38 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

Great stuff! I figured if a lot of great minds combined together, some great info could be gathered up on the subject {or our heads would explode like a pumpkin}. OK, if all these things play into splits, how the hell does one possibly avoid what will happen? Cover the main rooted areas of the plant when a lot of rain is forcasted? Build a semi hothouse, one permanent for summer that can be covered somewhat easily when needed? Or just go to church more?

What genetic is the Fellows 714.4 BTW? Looks to have quite a bit of Gancarz somewhere in it {I am getting to know that genetic very well}. I looked on the AGGC, but it is not listed. Do you have any idea what it's background is? Just curious....

8/26/2004 10:52:22 PM

Joliet, IL

somekind of thermal blanket that also had moisture
breathing abilities like gortex would be ideal used along
with a thermostatically controlled electic blanket that
cinched down and around the pumpkin with bungee like
cords.

or has anyone ever set up heating cables under the styrofome
or sand that the pumpkin sits on and then plug them in if
needed at night. if it was set on 65 degrees with a
thermostat, then one would be able to leave it on all
the time knowing it will activate when nights go below
65. this would eliminate the larger temp swings for
people out west or in the desert also. then when it gets
even colder and you want to enclose the pumpkin in a
mini greenhouse, your heat source is already built in
under the pumpkin and it just needs to be covered at night.

i doubt that this summer will repeat itself nextyear,
but this might be one way for late setting pumpkins to get
an expanded life cycle in the fall with more chances
of success.

the obvious key here would be not to cook the pumpkin
into rotting situations. just some late nate ramblings
here. take it for what it is worth.

8/26/2004 11:17:40 PM

Deer Park, WI

Marc posed the ultimate question: how does one avoid splits? Since most agree that splits have a significant genetic factor, so the first step is planting seed lines that do not have a history of splitting. For example, 66% of the fruit grown off the 922 emmons split. Yet people still actively seek out this seed?! On the contrary, we have lines that have never split and they are mostly ignored. If there is a genetic link, we can breed it out!!

We dont know for certain if mineral deficiencies are a causal factor, so the best we can do is maintain optimal soil levels of these nutrients through STRUCTURED and CONSISTENT fertilizing programs.

The same applies to watering. Unfortunatly, you cant do much about a 2" rainfall after a drought, but you can water on a STUCTURED and CONSISTENT basis to help prevent those issues.

Lastly, temperature swings are probably the hardest to deal with. Big warmups after a cool streak may cause increases in growth that could lead to splits. There's not really much we can do to counteract this, but if a grower has taken steps to manage the other contributing factors, this shouldnt be a problem. Do the best we can with what we have!

8/27/2004 9:11:20 AM

[email protected]

I don't see why we can't create a microclimate for the fruit to grow in so long as patch space permits. But ideally I would prefer to grow in a closed environment with both heating & coolin options.

8/28/2004 12:30:12 AM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

Something I noticed today at my satallite patch... I spotted new growth on the fruit on areas that warmed up, but none towards the bottom of the fruit where it touches the ground. We got down to 40 last night, and it took most of the AM to warm up. Is the contrast of fruit tempature possibly the reason why after cold they split? I bet there was a good 15 degree difference between top of fruit and the bottom....
no, I got lucky as it held together today...

8/28/2004 11:03:51 PM