From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

I know it's early on to start thinking genetics, but I'm interested in finding out who has made {or is growing} selfed or sibbed crosses, and how those genetics are doing. If you wish, email me if you do not wish to post. No info will be rumored out, if need be.

8/13/2004 2:58:55 AM

I'm with Gordon... GO UTES!

Those of us in the Rocky Mountain states can always dream of next year... ;-)

I'm selfing the 1005 Mombert and also the 576 Michalec (squash). Both are excellent plants.

Good thread, I wish others would do more selfing. Selfing helps purify a particular line and reduces variability. Do some selfing first, then do your cross. Several generations of "cross-cross-cross-cross...." is not as good (IMHO) as "self-cross-self-self-cross...".

Regards, Cliff

http://idahopumpkin.tripod.com/

8/13/2004 11:14:41 AM

wisconsin rapids WI

I have a 1076.5 Werner * the 1004 Werner that is still growing even with are bad weather its at about 238lbs and also the have a 1004 Werner *self at about 90lbs

8/13/2004 1:06:21 PM

Deer Park WA

I have selfed all my plants for the past few years. Currently growing 596 Gadberry X self, and three 834* X self

We have several others I selfed this season, but they wernt from selfed parents. BTW the fruit from the selfed plants are way ahead of the fruit that were out crossed.

8/13/2004 3:20:24 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

I have a 801.5 Stelts 97 X self going this year - it is my best pumpkin with great orange color and nice shape.
Will plant those seeds in the future for color breeding....
Martin

8/13/2004 4:12:02 PM

Cincinnati,OH

Here are the selfed pumpkins I'm growing.
601 Rahe x self (2nd generation 901 Hebb self)
955 Stelts x self
389 Wheeler x self (995 Carter x 869.5 Calai)
781 Schlutt x self ( on plant 1)3rd generation 990 Bax self
781 Schlutt x self ( 2nd pumpkin on plant 1)

8/13/2004 4:34:58 PM

Eveleth MN

here are my "selfed" pumpkins this year
450 Wronski X Self (869.5 Calai x 995 Carter ) Which I notice is the opposite cross of Ron R's 389 Wheeler x self
534.8 Andrews x Self (900 Lyons X Sibb) this one it ORANGE

8/13/2004 4:55:57 PM

In the shade - PDX, OR

I selfed the 841 Stucker (801.5 Stelts X 846 Calai).

a late pollination on 7/15, but my fastest grower ever.
It had an 88" cir on it's 25th day. slowed down a bit but will still hit 100" cir on day 30.

A very cooperative plant w/ a nicely rounded fruit.

8/13/2004 5:27:44 PM

Roselle, IL [email protected]

I have a couple 731 Stucker X sib pumpkins. The 731 is a 801.5 Stelts x sib

8/13/2004 6:32:07 PM

Cheyenne, Wyoming

I have a 753 Pappas X Self. 753 Pappas is the 898 Knauss X self.

8/13/2004 9:41:11 PM

Amherst, WI

1016 Daletas selfed, and 473* Welty selfed.

8/13/2004 10:19:56 PM

Greencastle, PA

I've got a 963 Stucker x 1061.5 Ciliberto and reverse... not a sib or a self but it's strengthening the 935 Lloyd and 567.5 genes...(723x935)x(935x801.5) and reverse... I also crossed the 582 Hester Hester with the 963 to strengthen it's 935 and 567.5 genes... there are so many genes in the 582.Tom

8/13/2004 11:58:48 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

I'm trying like all hell to get fruit with seed from all my 2004 plants. I have the following {still alive}:

539 Stellpflug X self 3 times (orange fruits)
502 Ciliberto X self 3 times (also orange fruits)
390 Gancarz (84) X self once (unsure of fruit color yet}
735 Pukos {846 X self}
Two 407 Sawtelle/ Eiffler {940 Mombert 98 X self}
278 Beachy {717 McDonald X self}
962 Williamse { Waterman X self a billion times}
696 Hoomis {920 Cole X self= 567 Wallace X self}
Kazenski X self {Dill X self a million times}
993 Johnson {820 Werner X selfed}
820 Werner {1007 Brown selfed}
Garrell 2003 Genetics {1098 Burke X sibb}
704 Stellplug { 865 Mettler X self}
337 Sawtelle { 1064 Needham X sibb}

Those are the ones from self crosses. Some others of interest are the following genetics:

567 Mombert X 575 Dill unreleased genetic
307 Sawtelle {825 Shymanski X 940 Mombert 98}
530 Gancarz { unknown}
758 Ferry {1.0 Dill X self} {Has no male flowers!}
563 Geerts {990 X 693}
845 Bobier { 935 Lloyd F X 827 Holland 92)
Kazenski/self X Ruff/self {experimental F-1 hybrid cross}
1143 Colbert {735 Pukos X 723 clone that grew the 1178}
805 Pukos

Hail storm might force me to make clones of many of these plants, as I don't know if I'll have fruits on very many of these that will have viable seeds by first frost.

8/14/2004 1:31:19 AM

Cincinnati,OH

I saw your diary and vote your patch as 2004s "Most Pulverized" I've never seen anything like that.

8/14/2004 3:04:18 PM

Ontario, Canada.

I Have an 1156 Larsen by self, 1301 Eaton by self & a 709 McCallum by self.

8/14/2004 6:29:23 PM

Cologne / Germany

But why IMHO do we never see any records coming from selfed crosses? Aren´t they all - or most of them - the result of crossing different parents that just fit for the "big one"?

8/14/2004 8:17:28 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Hey George,,,those 731 x sibb ones I sent you?

8/14/2004 9:57:15 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

Ingo,
I know there are a few selfed seeds that are doing well.
I just can't remember which ones...
The 735 Pukos and the 950 Boyton come to my mind but there are more... Most people would be happy to grow a 735.
Martin

8/15/2004 12:59:03 PM

Key West, FL

my 880 (695 x sibb) is growing me an ok one, growing good, just a little bit of a late pollination. It started out growing very fast, but slowed down recently due to the weather I think and is starting to pick back up? It's on a secondary trained as the main.

8/15/2004 3:19:00 PM

Roselle, IL [email protected]

I planted the 3 -731 stucker plants and sibbed them . No, did not plat your seeds Southern. All these seeds will be availiable

8/15/2004 9:11:32 PM

[email protected]

842 Eaton x self if it holds together.

8/15/2004 9:31:26 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

The 834's interest me Gerry for next years genetics patch. I also like the 534.8 gentic {I hope like hell you re- selfed it...Orange???} How is that 898 selfed doing {753}?tHE 473* and the 781 also have my interest as well. Would like to hear more on those genetics.

Ron, Not very surprising to report we got another storm yesterday. I had 2-3 inches at the house, but this time I drove home like a bat outta hell and got most of everything covered that I still care about.
Mother nature is a drug pusher! She keep trying to turn me on to pounds of that white rock cocaine stuff every week almost! The plants hate that stuff too... wish someone would lock her up.

8/16/2004 12:15:44 AM

Utah

I have a 735 Pukos x self in the patch that is doing well this year. Huge shoulders.
gordon

8/16/2004 11:46:44 AM

I'm with Gordon... GO UTES!

Floh asked, "why don't we see any...?" basically, it's not
the self cross that you want, but the cross from two selfed
lines that make it interesting.

The 567.5 was made this way. The parent 609 Lamelle went
though generations without any other line involved. The
line was purified. Then when you cross, wow!

I haven't got the data in front of me, but the 935 Lloyd
itself was the result of a lot of "purifying". While the
935 itself was a great seed, it also gave rise to many
other great seeds.

On the other hand, when you just cross-cross-cross, this
results in randomness.

Regards, Cliff

8/16/2004 6:59:09 PM

Hudsonville, Michigan ([email protected])

I've got an 842 Eaton x self that's doing o.k....roughly 475 lbs now.
Also a 797.5 Wyckoff x self that split at about 250 lbs....hopefully I can get some mature seeds out of that one.

Frank

8/16/2004 7:45:55 PM

Long Island,New York

I have a back-cross....723Bobier x 935Lloyd.

8/16/2004 10:57:49 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

The Llyod genetic works so well with others because it is somewhat purified. From everything I understand, you really need to have a 7-8 generation self/sibb line going to really get hybrid vigorioous offspring. Even then, you'd have to grow several offspring to find the kind of results you desire from that F-1. Cliff's right, there are a lot of random crosses out there with many random results.

Purifying genetics is the best way to go if your actually planning a long term thing. It's better to self, then sibb or self again before trying to breed that genetic with something. The reason is because your offspring have a better chance to share equal results rather than varied results you'd see from a mega crossed strain.

8/17/2004 12:20:59 AM

Okla

anyone ever grow a selfed or sibbed 935 and have good luck with it?
Thomas

8/17/2004 12:40:35 AM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

The Llyod genetic also is a good genetic to use due to it's inital gentic roots. Here is why...I hope your all ready for this explaination....LMAO

752 side:

It has no 827 in it (575 F X 742 M}, but it does have a 722 {742 F X 575 M} on the 752.8 male side. The male was a cross of the 722 X a backcross {sort of...the 717 which is off a 674... I say sort of due to the fact the 674 was crossed with a Dill genetic}. I'm at a loss as what the 613 was for it's inital genetic {Dill or Gancarz...Anyone know?}. The 613 produced the 717 which was open pollinated {and I assume might have been selfed?}

614 side:

It has a recessive green gene that was somewhat isolated from a 355 Dill, the same 355 that was the mother to the 575. The 355 was a squash, but the 575 plant had the orange trait dominate while the Neily had the green trait more. That is what male was crosses into the 752.5 {the 509 Neily}.The 935 also is a decendant of the 671 Gancarz. The 671 was from a 390 Gancarz, and a good bet would be it was a cross like the 355 X 492, meaning squash X pumpkin resulting in hybrid vigor. The Gancarz and Dill genetics were both quite isolated from each other at one time, thus making them great to cross together. The 671 in the 935 threw a green 574, then 589, then the third time an orange {recessive} trait came out on Len's 752, which he crossed with Brown's 699 plant {an offspring of 674 Waterman which is an offspring of the 472 Waterman which is an offspring of Alan's 579 which was a Dill genetic, to the best of my knowledge}.

8/17/2004 1:30:23 AM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

Both the 614 and the 752 crossed together results in a very different gentic than the mostly 827/567 genetics out there.....
The 827 stuff produced a ton of offspring. The Mombert genetic {although from the 575 as well} also is another genetic different from the 935 and the 827's stuff.....
The 946.5 Geerts in the 865 is pretty much a Dill X Waterman gentic {with that damn unknown 612 Orr in it once}, so it's kinda what I'd say as an inbred gentic {all of it's parents go back to the 827 & 742}. The 567 Mombert is a 575 {F} offspring that has the isolated mystery gentic from Helmets long fruit producing genetics on the male side. The 567 does not have the 674/742 genetics in it. So,crossing the 827's offspring line with the 567's genetics created a something almost totally different than the 935. Then crossing the 865 with the 935 resulted in a somewhat hybrid cross = 827 & 567 stuff X mostly squash background stuff {with both the 865 and the 935 sharing the Craven gentics... the only common related gene}

The Knauss gentic X an isolated 723/845/ and even 846 gentic should produce some interesting offspring as well, since the 898 has different inital starting origins. A selfed 898 X a selfed, sibbed, or inbred 723/845/ 846 line should be even better. Hard to know for certain though, as the only known detail of the 898 is that it is from a Dill line. Unknown facts of where the Dill's parantage came from and what all is in the Waller make it too difficult to know how the 898 will due as a breeder.

8/17/2004 1:30:43 AM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

I'm growing a sibbed 1098 Burke { which is a selfed 935} Thomas. Hard to know yet what to say about it's results due to all my hail storms. Hope to know something by harvest time.

8/17/2004 1:34:04 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

I selfed a 650 Lloyd last year and sibbed a 659 McCallum...the resulting McCallum/Little seed is now a (935 x self x sibb)

8/17/2004 6:13:53 AM