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Myrtle Creek, Oregon

As many post's that are put on this site every day I might have missed this one but here goes anyway.
Say you have two plants one from a seed that came from a 300+ lber and the other from a seed that came from a 600+ lber, now you take a male from the 300+ and pollinate a female on the 600+ and then take a male from the 600+ and pollinate a female on the 300+, does the male play a larger role in the overall shape and size or will they stick to more of the female's overall weight and size.
knowing that the fruit will take traits from bolth plants,wich scenario is more appt to grow the larger fruit?
(and why am I sittin here with this danged dictionary??)

9/30/2001 9:27:25 AM

Long Island,New York

Casual observation in my experience indicates tendencies, not rules. The shape SEEMS to be a combo of both the male and female with more female than male.The color TENDS to follow more along the male side, or more OFTEN the male side. SIZE...some seeds APPEAR to be better pollinators than others with size being determined by ALL outside influences.Weather is a HUGE factor.Climate includes weather is HUGE. Soil is very important.I think some of the better growers with better climates in a good weather year could make a huge pumpkin with any great seed cross.....G

9/30/2001 10:07:47 AM

Buffalo, NY

I thought the fruit takes the traits of the plant it is on and its parents? The **seeds** of this fruit will show the traits of the cross parents **NEXT** year when they are planted, correct? Also, getting really technical, none of us are considering the DNA of the plants as some of the traits are dominant and some are recessive. For example, orange is dominant and green is recessive. If the color genes have both orange and green, they will be orange; theoretically, it takes two recessive genes to show recessive traits (green.) Combine these thoughts with multiple fruits on the same plant and you can see why you can have multiple combinations (ie, orange & green on same plant.) This is just one example, and we didn't get into shape, size, dill rings, stem lengths, ribbing, etc. All these unknown traits that we don't scientifically know enough about yet. (Actually somebody probably does know--that's how they get hybrids to produce the results they want--not all were mistakes that just happened to be desirable, look at tomatoes as a good example of how breeders purposely combine certain genes/traits to get what they want.)
Yes, Glenn is right about weather, climate, soil, etc.

Mark

9/30/2001 12:50:15 PM

Mark, Glenn is talking about the effect the cross on the next generation, I was confused about that for a second too.

Alex

9/30/2001 1:04:41 PM

Buffalo, NY

So, if it takes a year/generation to find the results, I would believe that the 600 female plant would produce bigger than the 300 female plant THIS YEAR, but next year maybe anything can go. But next year I would still favor the original larger plant. Kind of like adding a bucket gallon of water to a cup or a cup of water to a gallon bucket--the bucket is still a gallonful and the cup is still only a cupfull besides any waste that overflowed. I would start with the larger initial amount. This may be against conventional wisdom since many large pumpkins are grown from smaller pumpkins. If you were comparing 500 to 600 instead of 300 to 600, then the difference is more minimal between the two and I'd consider the 500. This is just my opinion though.

9/30/2001 1:05:27 PM

Long Island,New York

I presume H-K-J is speaking of growing the seeds from reverse crosses...which will produce bigger, not the fruit as its pollinated.

9/30/2001 1:06:01 PM

Buffalo, NY

Alex,
Sorry, I started typing my 2nd thoughts as soon as I finished posting my original thoughts. Didn't see your post. Since we don't know what the fruits were from the 300x600 and the 600x300, if someone offered seeds from both with no other info known, I personally would have chosen the seeds from the 600x300 (FxM). I'm only going by some theories but Glenn has me beat with experience.

Mark

9/30/2001 1:16:47 PM

Buffalo, NY

When you said reverse cross, did you mean pollinating an offspring with it's parent? Is back crossing the same as reverse crossing? I thought he meant pollinating an offspring with a different offspring and vise versa, and wanted to know which will produce a bigger fruit--a 600x300 or a 300x600 using the same common parents.

9/30/2001 1:35:22 PM

Long Island,New York

As far as i know, 600x300 is the reverse cross of 300x600.Back-crossing would be to take that seed, grow it, and pollinate the fruit with either the 600 or the 300.Unless you know everything about that specific 300, you cannot say it will produce less than the 600. Thats where people jump to conclusions...perhaps the 300 was on a plant with a 900 already on it.Maybe the grower is crippled with a 10x20 patch of shady sunshine.Maybe a borer got in the vine and held it back.You need to explore EVERYTHING.And even then, its a crapshoot ! Some hobby huh !! But to cut down the odds of disappointment or perhaps increase the odds of success contact the growers and ask everything. Pumpkin people love talking pumpkins...especially THIER pumpkins ! We all love the serious grower..the one who digs deep for info is serious.My little 455 grew a 954 this year..size isn't as important after the weighoff.........G

9/30/2001 2:08:27 PM

Myrtle Creek, Oregon

First of all thanks to all of your replys,
Lets go this route.
If I have a plant growing from a dill 656 and a plant growing from a Huffer 378 (self dill 610 x dill 610) and now Pollinate the 656 to the Huffer 378 and then Pollinate the female on the 378 with the male 656 wich of the two scenario's is more appt to produce the larger pumpkin in the year they are growing? ( this could be a posibility in 2002)
H-K-J

9/30/2001 3:00:37 PM

canal winchester ohio

To start off thanks for even thinking of planting one of my seeds. second if the 656 is the one I sent you then its the 656 grown in 1999, Tom Beachy grew the 656 last year & got a 511 off of it. You might want to contact him to see what kind of plant it was. As far as mine it was tall, round & very deep orange , offspring should be the same from the self pollination.............Paul

9/30/2001 3:22:53 PM

Long Island,New York

In 2002...the pollination should have no bearing on the fruit size. In 2003 I think it all depends on how the 656 did in 2002 and how the 353 did in 2002.Then you can make a guess....but a somewhat edumacated guess.

9/30/2001 4:21:20 PM

Myrtle Creek, Oregon

edumacated ,LOL, I like that!
So plantem, Pollinatem, growem, en hope like hec and see what come's in 03. I cant even think if I'm goin to work tomorrow,
but I'll bet I grow Pumpkins in 2003.
Thank's every one, now I'll go drive my wife nuts with all this stuff.
Oh by the way Polly is in the kitchen cookin me
(of all thing's)Pumpkin cookies!!!!
H-K-J <;-)

9/30/2001 4:59:47 PM