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El Dorado Hills, California

I've just recently discovered my 719 Smith... my only giant in the ground... has a flat vine.

I'm a new grower, so really had no idea what a "normal" vine was supposed to look like. But just getting the hint that the pictures from my diary seemed to look like a double-vine, I soon after discovered I was dealing with a flat vine.

I'm definately still going to grow on it... but I need advice. Please... I mean, how am I supposed to do this?
Any suggestions, advice, or help in any way would be most appreciated.

More information on all this is on the Post titled, "Poet"
And there are several pictures in my diary.
Thanks So Much,
Sara

6/19/2004 10:22:38 PM

Enumclaw WA

I had my first flat last year and I let it grow. By the end of the season, the main was 18" wide!. The plant aborted a lot of fruit, but I did manage a couple of 200+ pounders. Other growers will have different opinions on this and recent posts on double vine and flat vine have quite a bit of information. If I were to grow another flatvine and it was my only plant, I would train the first strong seconday (that exhibits no signs of "flat") to become the new "main", and terminate the "old" main a little beyond the secondary. Good Luck

6/20/2004 12:01:39 AM

San Diego

my 845 is flat too, no one answered my post unfortunately. Another question on genetics, if a plant is normal besides a flat vine and your cross it with a normal plant, will the seeds be ok or will they grow flat viners? I'm guessing from what growers have said flat vines come in varying widths, some real wide, some not so wide? Jimmy

6/20/2004 5:18:35 PM

Utah

Here are some previous threads that should help.

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/msgboard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=76286

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/MsgBoard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=75384

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/msgboard/ViewThread.asp?b=3&p=74758

6/21/2004 12:49:07 PM

Utah

The more i think about it, the more I think flat vine is a recessive genetic trait. so the odds are you won't get one from your planned cross... but you never know.

6/21/2004 4:44:59 PM

Utah

Sara,

Make a cut into the end of your main vine. a up and down cut into the tip of the new growth- so you have two equal sides. cut in about 1-2 inches, but don't cut anything off. just split the end of the vine into two.

wait about a week and look at the new growth. you should have two sparate vines now. and one of three things will have happened. look closely to see if the vines look normal (one leaf and one tentril at each node) or look flat again (two leaves and two tentril at each node) it might take longer than a week to be sure. that is ok - just keep checking until you can identify what type of vines you have.

The three options you can end up with are:

1) both look normal. if so then wait another week and check again. if they stay normal then you pick one to keep as your 'new' main and cut off the other one.

2) one looks normal and one looks like it is going flat again. if so cut off the flat one and grow the normal one. check again in a week. if the one remaining one goes flat again then cut it off and train a secondary vine to be your new main vine. just like great pumpkin said. usually one near where you had to cut off other vines will work well because you don't have to train/move it so much. but any secondary will do.

3) both look flat vine, if so then cut them both off and train a secondary to be your new main vine.

6/21/2004 5:04:33 PM

Utah

... anyway... that's what i would do. others might have different ideas and opinions.

good luck.
gordon

6/21/2004 5:08:08 PM

El Dorado Hills, California

Thanks a million... Totally awesome...
I'll read up a bit more on it... you know the threads and all... and then I might just do that

Only thing I think I might oughta mention is that right around the end of the vine there I have the first 2 small buds of female flowers... But then there's a bit of vine before the "end" where I could attempt the separating the vines experiment...

But then there's the fragile skinny part of the vine where the vine split was and I'm afraid of how that might work out... growing a pumpkin with that fragile of a connection to the root systems and all... No nodes are inbetween the vine split and the place where the tiny female buds appear... so I'll probably end up having to ditch the potential pumpkins on the flat vine :-(

So my current hypothesis of how I'm gonna go about this is... I think I'll attempt to do the double vine separation... and simultaniously make sure at least one secondary is going good for backup...
And although I'll be losing the 2 "potential pumpkins" the well being of any pumpkin the plant does grow will be much better off...

And if flat-vining is indeed a "ressesive trait" that pretty much makes it a totally idiotic thought to even dare attempt a self pollination with this particular plant huh? You know... a rr crossed with a rr... would give a 100% chance of rr offspring...
So there goes my previously "planned cross" ugh...

And I am a bit curious as to why the flat-vine trait appears to be ressesive?

But once again thanks so much for the advice...
And any more suggestions for my situation would be absolutely awesome...

Thanks,
Sara

6/22/2004 1:58:17 AM

Utah

To be honest - know matter what anybody says... nobody knows why flat vines occur period ! they seem to appear in some seeds more than other which would lead one to think they are genetic in nature. but most of the time they seem to appear randomly. so it is more complex than rr x rr type genetics.

6/22/2004 9:52:31 AM