Message Board - BigPumpkins.com

Joliet, IL

tremor, you out there?
just wondering what mixing rate of demand cs i should use
per gallon of water and how many gallons of mix
to spray 2000 sq ft. i have a little ml suringe measure
so how many mls per gallon of water should i use?

also how often to spray if using
overhead watering or misting systems.

i mixed at the directed rate for clover mites, 12 mls
per gallon, but wasn't sure if this was the right amount for
on plants because the instruction with the demand cs
say nothing about using on plants, only for inside and
outside building pest control.

i used it along with daconil (only 1 teaspoon per gallon)
and i have some phytotoxic light green and yellow splotches
only on new leaf growth on all 3 plants i sprayed.
i tried to avoid spraying on the vine tips or new leaves,
but apparently i didn't do to well on the leaves, but they
continue to grow and the vine tips are fine. also i had to mist the plants in their greenhouses because it got hot and
sunny the day after i sprayed when the weather was calling
for cool and cloudy. i think some water washed it off
onto the new leaf growth.

at first i thought each plant was showing signs from
the end of the year mosaic virus from 2003. i am now
hoping it is just some minor chem burn instead of that.

also, could mosaic virus lie dormant on bamboo stakes
all winter long and then get transfered to the plants
while staking vines? should i dissinfect the stakes
somehow or just toss em and by new ones, or does
mosaic only come each year with the insects?

tremor and all growers' advice is greatly appreciated.
shazzy

6/4/2004 10:03:15 PM

Joliet, IL

i re-read my post and it sounds like i said i will be using
the demands cs is an overhead watering system. that is not
the case, i will be pump spraying the insecticide, but
if using an overhead system water, do i spray more
frequently due to wash off of the insecticide.

6/4/2004 11:20:12 PM

Shazzy,

Are we talking about Demand CS at 9.7% Lambda-cyhalothrin?

The eqivalent rate for Demand for Cucumber Beetles is 3.5 oz per acre, which delivers the same amount of Lambda-cyhalothrin as 3 oz per acre of Warrior Z.

The overall range is 2.5 - 5 oz per 100 gallons which would easily treat 1-1.5 acres.

I'm not sure why you'd be using the Clover Mite rate this early in the season. Do you have Clover Mites? If not, then our young plants don't need & likely won't tolerate heavy rates well.

When no pests are present & all we're trying to do is prevent them, then the low rate of 2.5 oz per 100 gals is fine. The small batch eqivalent is:

.44 mls per gallon. I would mix 1 ml (or 1cc) per 2 gallons to treat 1000 sq ft of patch area. So in your case, I'd mix 4 gallons water with 2mls/cc of Demand.

All this aside, where did you ever come up with 12 mls/gallon? The label I read says 3-5 oz (or 88-148 mls) per 100 gallons or 1.48 mls per gallon at the HIGHEST rate. 12 mls/gal is 8 times heavier than the label I read. That's way too high & might explain the problem you're having.

6/5/2004 12:32:22 AM

Don't worry about the overhead irrigation. Water doesn't wash insecticides off if the spray has dried. Rather sunlight is what eventually destroys our spray residue. In the case of all Lambda-cyhalothrin insecticdes, the effective residual is about 3 weeks. But the vines grow a lot in 3 weeks, leaving large parts of the plant unprotected. So spray at the very lightest rates (or lighter) as often as every other week. I sometimes prefer to use one half of the low rate & just treat weekly. This eazes the chemical stress on the plant (especially the tender tips) while still building up toward the higher residuals gradually.

For those who have never heard of Demand CS, it is another Syngenta offering of the same exact active ingredient as found in Warrior, Battle & Scimitar.

Here's the link to the label I used. And this label does have ornamental plants. See page 8.

http://www.cdms.net/ldat/ld2CD000.pdf

Not sure about Mosaic on stakes. However unlikely it may seem, if I had Mosaic in the patch, I would rather toss & replace the stakes than try to sterilize them for use in another season. Stakes are cheap compared to the effort we put into our plants.

Perhaps someone else has had to deal with Mosaic on Pumpkins & can better help here?

Steve

6/5/2004 12:32:33 AM

Joliet, IL

tremor,
thanks a bunch. yes i do have clover mites and
that is why i initially sprayed. i used the higher
limit "0.4 fl. oz(12ml)/gal. of water" which is
listed on page 10 of the syngenta demand cs 9.7%
lambda-cyhalothrin instruction book for clover mites.
i now realized i should have used the low end number,
but 2 days after spraying i saw my first squash bug
and my first cuke beatle so i wasn't too concerned.
the lowest dilution rate in their instruction book is
"0.2 fl. oz (6 ml)/gal. of water." again on page 10.
this is where i got my info. the problem with these
dilution rates i think is that the instruction booklet
only lists the bugs and the dilution rates needed for
indoor outdoor building pesticide use, and nothing
about plants or lowering dilution rate if using for
plants is mentioned in the instruction booklet. if
i used a similar product like scimitar before, i would have
stayed with that ratio, but i am new to using
lambda-cyhalothrin.

thanks again and hopefully the damage isn't too severe.
they are still growing like crazy so maybe i will
be alright. live and learn and time will tell.
thanks bro
jeff

6/5/2004 1:32:12 AM

Joliet, IL

tremor,
i saw the label at the address you posted
and it is right there under ornamentals.
the problem with my instruction booklet that
was attached to the bottle is that it doesn't have that
section. i just re-read it front to cover and then again
and it is not listed in this booklet. my label says
syngenta 2002 and maybe they changed the booklet since then.
i bought the demand cs on line in dec 2003. hopefully
the shelf life is still good.

6/5/2004 1:55:47 AM

The shelf life is good as long as it never froze. So long as the Percent Active Ingrdeient & the EPA Registration Number are the same, you may use that online label instead of the bottle leaflet.

6/5/2004 7:24:20 AM

Joliet, IL

thanks again tremor, i don't know what i would do with out
you. i take that back, i would know what i would be
doing....chem burning my plants. lol. after further
inspection this morning, here is what happens if you
use lambda-cyhalothrin in amounts 8 times the recommended
high end dosage. light green to yellow spots on the
young new leaves with 2 leaves getting distorted due to burning a bigger spot and the rest of leaf is still growing.
good news is no vines or vine tips were affected, nor
were the older established leaves, and the newest formed
leaves this morning show regular color and shape.
the shelf life is still good tremor because i found
my first dead cuke on a leaf this am.
lesson to be learned, do extensive computer research on
a product prior to using it no matter what the booklet says,
or just ask tremor. steve if you email your address,
i would like to buy you a case of beer of your choice
for the help you have given me over the last 2 years.
sincerely
jeff

6/5/2004 9:11:16 AM

Duster

San Diego

It's common to get this kind of burn occassioanlly. I have becaome an expert on mosaic virus compared to any kind of burn or blochy light green, dark green, mosaic look. The best way to tell the difference, mosaic always affects the tips of your vines, they become stunted, irregular, ugly looking things. Plus your leaves as they grow, they are stunted in size and have abnormal shapes, even green wart like things too. Any burn can look similar to mosaic, but the tips of vines look normal, the burned leaves grow to normal size, and the plant isn't stunted in anyway. This leaf condition can also occur from major root damage too. wishes Jimmy

6/5/2004 12:43:40 PM

southern

Appalachian Mtns.

Thanks for that info Jimmy. I needed to know the difference myself...

6/5/2004 5:32:11 PM

Joliet, IL

thanx jimmy,
much appreciated info.
good luck this year brother
shazzy

6/5/2004 7:16:47 PM