Message Board - BigPumpkins.com

Cologne / Germany

I never took my chance to become a member of that site before, but now I see there´s nothing but a login page, no email, nothing else. Just a warning not to abuse the database - which would never come to my mind, I don´t even know a person who would be interested in sharing AGGC data.
Is there still any solution to become a member of that page? As far as I know the membership is for money, so what?
I thought AG´s were meant to be "public domain" due to the Dill patent, but a general database about AG´s is not...kinda difficult to explain, isn´t it?
If you like to respond via email, please use [email protected]

Thanks, Ingo

6/3/2004 3:34:19 PM

The data collected & organized by Mike is readily available to anyone & the names we give our own pumkins belong only to ourselves & the world at large.

With fewer than 300 members each paying between $5-$10 each, Mike isn't getting rich. I doubt he's even covering his expenses.

Mike doesn't pretend to own the story or the players. What is his is the venue & the stage. He & others spent thousands of hours developing the Cucurbyte program to track Hierarchy Trees accurately as far back as is possible.

Mike's accomplished more than just Cucurbyte in the 6 years he's worked on his website. For sure it is the most complete database available on this subject.

6/3/2004 3:52:21 PM

Pumpkin_lover

Wroclaw, Poland (51 N, 17 E)

sure it is...

6/3/2004 3:54:48 PM

Louie1

Arizona

I just have to say Aggc is a great place, and I thank Mike very much as well as the other that worked so hard to put it togeather.

I really don't mind paying $5-10 a year (only like $.40-$.80 a month). And that should cover server charges.

Thanks Mike!

6/3/2004 4:40:31 PM

HotPumpkin (Ben)

Phoenix, AZ

I would love access to the site, but when I emailed Mike about paying to be a member, he said it was not open to new members. That was his response...period.

Does anyone know why?

Ben

6/3/2004 5:23:02 PM

The server isn't large enough to accept more than those there now.

6/3/2004 5:38:36 PM

Cologne / Germany

Okay, please don´t misunderstand me.
Now I already know his name his Mike...as long as I have to pay 9 $ for AOL every month just to get some emails, I wouldn´t have a problem to pay the same amount for some work worth a lot more than what these AOL guys do.
It´s just a strange situation to enter a webpage that doesn´t even offer some kind of explanation that new members are not accepted and there´s nothing else than a login option and a warning page.
I´ve been in the internet business for years and it´s not the way to attract people or to make any profit in case there´s any intention to do so. And if you need money to maintain or advance your good job, who would deny?

still not understanding, thanks, Ingo

6/3/2004 6:02:50 PM

Pappy

North Ga

It's Mikes site so he can do what he wants with it.

6/3/2004 6:12:06 PM

Cologne / Germany

Amen Earth Brown.
Who would be in the boat to make Mike an offer to give registered BP users paid access to his site? Maybe something that Ken and John could ask for to make it a legal and fair deal for the grower community that for whatever reason can´t have access to AGGC.

6/3/2004 6:21:42 PM

Louie1

Arizona

The login page is the troll under the Bridge, once you answed his 3 questains you enter the Castle. Thats were all the real magic Happens.

Am I making any sence? Guess are 100F temps cooked my brain earlyer.

the way I understand it like Tremor said, he can't fit any more new members on the server. And it cost more money to get a bigger server.

I think these are things you should take up with Mike himself.

Keep them growing!

Jeff

6/3/2004 6:43:33 PM

Cologne / Germany

Where are the 3 questions Jeff? Sorry no hidden troll on his login page,just checked the source code:-)
No email addy, no contact, that´s all.

6/3/2004 6:57:49 PM

40n 74e

"The server isn't large enough to accept more than those there now."

That is TOTAL BS.

6/3/2004 7:05:35 PM

Cologne / Germany

sorry for asking - my fault - just forget about this thread

6/3/2004 7:08:55 PM

40n 74e

It's not your fault. AGGC just thinks your an idiot who probably can't grow very well and most likely can't contribute much and therefore not worthy of using the system. In reality a user profile takes up very little space on the server, I can only state my theory about the actual problem being with the search functions of the site which has nothing to do with the 'largeness' of the server. A user's profile takes up less than 1/100th of the space as an average digital image. Perhaps it has everything to do with complex queries and the use of a micro(inefficiency)soft solution. And I've never been in any deeper than the login page either. I'd go on about solutions to his 'dilema' but I'd rather not give any ideas to someone who fails to share nicely. But even my theories about server load and the search functionality go out the window when tremor says there are less than 300 users... So perhaps we're just idiots. But it will be ok don't worry.

6/3/2004 7:35:45 PM

Duster

San Diego

Lets be honest about this situation. Mike has done a great job running the AGGC and put in a ton of work to help support this sport. His website has gotten so popular, he doesn't have the time or money to keep adding people all the time as it increases, it's just too much work. Some growers got angry at not being able to access the site or join because it is such a valuable place for information. They complained in an angry way. Mike's responce seemed in my opinion to be anger himself feeling betrayed after all the unselfish work he did and now his site, the AGGC, is like a fort knox with little help, to no help for those not members. It sure seems like people need to start forgiving one another and work out a solution that everyone is happy with. We would all benefit from a compromise, if not, we all suffer and bad feelings will always be present in the future. Now, this is only my opinion from all the different posts on this subject and being an AGGC member myself. I wish Mike the best, thank him for all his work, and hope things work out for the best. Jimmy

6/3/2004 8:07:46 PM

Cologne / Germany

Jimmy, I agree with you and I think noone would be interested (like me) if one din´t know the value of the AGGC database. I couldn´t access it by myself, but I heard alot about it.
But if it looks impossible even to contact the site owner, what sense does it make?
A public library is not free, I pay 20 $ per year over here to have access. So I don´t expect anything else to be free that reflects the hard work of the people spending their time collecting the knowledge of the world.
The idea is if the database can´t be accessed by new users due to server restrictions any more, the owner could ask for help. I´m sure the BP community could help.
Or we´re just idiots, you made the point DNA-:)

6/3/2004 8:36:28 PM

Brigitte

just out of curiousity (and because i can't remember) what's the annual cost to be a member?

6/3/2004 8:37:33 PM

$10

6/3/2004 9:01:38 PM

HotPumpkin (Ben)

Phoenix, AZ

Well, because I am interested newbie to growing, I will add a bit more comment.

It is Mike's perogative to do what he wants with his site. However I am certain that it has nothing to do with space issues but something else that turned him off to the willingness to add new people.

If he truly wanted, he could hand it off and someone else would take it from there.

I just hope by saying something, maybe it will motivate him to open it to anyone willing to pay again.

6/3/2004 9:23:16 PM

southern

Appalachian Mtns.

Good gosh, won't this issue ever die?

6/3/2004 9:29:44 PM

Tom B

Indiana

This issue has always been a hornets nest! HAHA Dont need the site til pollination time in a month, so dont worry about it now!

Tom

6/3/2004 9:53:59 PM

40n 74e

"With fewer than 300 members each paying between $5-$10 each, Mike isn't getting rich. I doubt he's even covering his expenses."

Here tremor, do the math.

http://www.1wh.com/webhosting/index.html

Even with the top rate hosting solution by AGGC's host they will be paying what... 360 a year?

300 members, 10 bucks a pop. Do the math.

PS - Since not a single person here has given credit to the community which contributed the information in the DB at AGGC gave any credit whatsoever to those people:

co·op·er·a·tive ( P ) Pronunciation Key (k-pr--tv, --rtv, -pr-)
adj.
Done in cooperation with others: a cooperative effort.
Marked by willingness to cooperate; compliant: a cooperative patient.
Of, relating to, or formed as an enterprise or organization jointly owned or managed by those who use its facilities or services: a cooperative department store; cooperative apartment buildings.

n.
An enterprise or organization that is owned or managed jointly by those who use its facilities or services

6/4/2004 12:53:45 AM

ValuePack

Salt Lake City, UT

Brent Richey has begun to collect data on a microsoft access format. I received a Beta copy of the database and thought it was a great tool to understand some simple geneology as well as progeny data. I would love to see someone try to create an AGGC-2 that was built on a platform with intentions to be large and robust for many users. It seems like the cost could be funded by some reasonable membership fees. Anyone live near a university where you could access some sharp student programmers who would do it on the cheap to build their resumes? I would be the first in line to donate to the cause but unfortunately I don't have time to organize it myself. I would easily pay $50 to have access to the AGGC or something like it.

Then again, I geek out on this website enough as it is. Heaven help me if I had access to the AGGC, then I would really be in trouble.

I for one would love to see a some reasonable "for profit" initiatives take place on this website or others to facilitate the demand for information that this hobby has created.

6/4/2004 1:45:57 AM

Cologne / Germany

I have some accounts actually not in use and access to webspace, also some experience publishing web content. If you like my help, just ask.
When BP.com still had a seed list the last years, I liked the way the seed information was presented: picture and description of the pumpkin, genetic tracking for male and female back to grand parents. Unfortunately that useful database went away with the seeds.

6/4/2004 6:14:06 AM

$3000 per year minus $360 year = $2640 divide by around 1500 hours of Mike's time per year = $1.76 per hour before taxes. Yep! Mike's holding out that's for sure.

There's the math & it sounds like slave labor to me.

If some members hadn't shared passwords, the site would be more open. Those that remain are trusted to keep the trust.

Bottom line: It's Mike's site & he's free to do what he will with it.

I'm done with this.

6/4/2004 9:30:15 AM

cliffrwarren

I'm with Gordon... GO UTES!

I used to be a member...

This is very concerning to me in that the logic seems to be
that only those supposed 300 members are going to contribute
any worthwhile genetic data. What if one of us who are not
members actually grow a big one. It could happen. Then what?

Yes it is Mike's site and he is free to do what he wants
with it. But it would be a shame to see it die. New people
get into this sport each year, and others go away to do
other things. It wouldn't take very long before the site
represents a minority of growers.

6/4/2004 11:15:01 AM

Gads

Deer Park WA

Suppose people dont provide the AGGC with their pumpkin genetic info? The AGGC data base would soon be almost useless. I'm a member, but havent logged on since the "security Measures" were implemented as I dont have time at home, and only looked around durring lunch at the office.

6/4/2004 3:05:15 PM

Joe123

Independence, MO

If there are any programmers and developers lurking around here that want to contribute to building a site, I've owned and operated a web hosting company here since 1997, and I have both the bandwidth and the hardware available to host websites, databases, etc etc etc.
Time is never on my side, nor is it on anyone elses.
I think there are enough people around here that wouldnt mind contributing time to build something that wouldnt cost anyone a penny.

6/4/2004 3:59:55 PM

mark p

Roanoke Il

About 4 years ago giver take a year the Aggc as born at that time I thought it was a great idea everyone share information about there pumpkins everyone could use his sight for free. Know Mike has said that know one can join because his server can't handle It and the coast of the membership is ten dollars. I in know way think Mike is making any money from his sight and he can let who he wants in Aggc. That doesn't make Mike a bad person. If Money to expand his site is what he needs to open the site to all agin I think there is many ways in which we could help him raise It. But for The past year or so There has been no word from Mike publicly In how we can help.
So I ask you Mike or a friend of Mike or a member of AGGC to get in touch with Mike Lets get the ball going to raise some funds for Mike to get a bigger server so all growers can use his site. Mike I know your a good guy down deep that just needs alittle help lets all stop bashing the AGGC and help it Mike raise the money to open it to all. mark

6/4/2004 6:08:05 PM

40n 74e

"$3000 per year minus $360 year = $2640 divide by around 1500 hours of Mike's time per year = $1.76 per hour before taxes. Yep! Mike's holding out that's for sure."

Don't act like it's his job tremor. If you want to play on that side of the fence then most of your prior support for Mike giving his time to the 'cause' goes right out the window. You suggested that he's probably not even covering his costs. I just showed you that is not the case. Take things as they are bro.

Sheesh.
Logic people. Just tell people the truth about why they are not allowed to join the AGGC and stop making up silly excuses like the server is not 'large' enough, there is no money, etc. Tell them they are idiots who the AGGC feels are incapable of contributing to the 'cooperative'.... Mike has all the help he needs, it's just that he himself suffers from the same symptoms as the AGGC site. The C should really be dropped and replaced with an I.

I hear he insists upon entering all pumpkin data himself after it is submitted each year. Is that true?
If so it is just another example of the trust he has in the community. Granted this is speculation now, but if my previous statements are true, even the members of the AGGC are treated like idiots.

6/4/2004 7:11:42 PM

Duster

San Diego

I talked to Mike today, he told me that he has already made public plans for non-aggc members to be able to get info by this fall. I have no idea what the plan is, but why has everyone been complaining if this was made public already? Sounds like he is doing a good job in this area, so let's support him on it. Hope this information helps everyone. Jimmy

6/5/2004 1:35:30 AM