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Colo.Spgs.CO. Pikes Peak Chapter @ [email protected]

In 1988 the #2 in the world fruit was the 616 Dill 88. And the 616 was also the #4 in the world fruit for all time in 1988 according to the aggc. My question is what fruit was the #1 in the world in 1988, and what other 2 fruits were grown that were bigger than the 616 Dill before 1988? The aggc does not list this info, and or at least I was not able to find it....Thank you, JK.

3/29/2004 3:47:52 AM

Knopp, Germany

I think the #1 fruit was the 653.5 Stellpflug 88* It probably wasn't listed because it was a squash.

3/29/2004 4:08:46 AM

New York

Here's some info..

3/29/2004 5:33:44 AM

New York

1- 633 Keith Chappell...IPA's #1 AND LARGEST '88
2- 627 Lanny Harbord...WPC largest and weighed at same weigh-off as Howard's 616

Also that year Ray Waterman had a 644 that was DQ'd due to a split on the bottom...this was the biggest unofficial in '88

The other 2 pumpkins ahead of the 616 were grown in 1986...Bob and Ed Gancarz...671 (WR) and 618.5

3/29/2004 5:40:47 AM

[email protected]

400SF, You can reset the "years" parameter at AGGC. I didn't try, but this might work. -Steve

3/29/2004 8:16:28 AM

Md/ Usa

the world record in 1988 was the gancarz 671 set in 1986.

3/29/2004 8:48:38 AM

Nj

From Jersey... the Garden State. :)

3/29/2004 11:18:05 AM

I thought Jill grew a 1000 pounder in 1988. LOL

3/29/2004 12:14:57 PM

Greencastle, PA

nope, that was 89 lol... too bad she couldn't makeit to niagra.
tom

3/29/2004 3:42:25 PM

[email protected]

She did. Ask Alan Reynolds.

3/29/2004 6:57:33 PM

Colo.Spgs.CO. Pikes Peak Chapter @ [email protected]

THANKS ALAN N. That helps fill in some of the blanks....

3/29/2004 8:56:39 PM

Greencastle, PA

I thought Dave said she didn't. I never met her, and would have liked to ask her about those 1000 pounders she grows every year (maybe she uses more milk on her patch than i do). Do you know if she told Alan if she'd be attending any weigh-offs this fall?
Tom

3/30/2004 3:54:11 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

I think everything points to one thing... The young Alan Nesbitt was responsible for pretty much all of todays stuff. My question, Alan.... I assume the 579 you grew in 86 was from the Wright genetic (?). I also assume somehow that Helmet Laaumle's stuff comes from the Wright genetics. Am I way off base or what?

From what I've researched and been told, Dill developed one strain and Gancarz developed another. One a Canadian, one in(Illinois/ Indiana)America. Both supposedly had no genetic ties until they were bred into one another somewhere in the 80's. What year did all this happen... 1985???

Does anyone know, or sould I say, will anyone ever give me a straight answer on this matter. Seems like everyone gives me a different "truth" when I probe deep into this pumpkin X file. What happened to all those seeds back then as well?!!! Were all those inital growers killed off to protect top secret info from getting out {it was odd why Nesbitt didn't grow for such a long time too... I think he's in on it} Also, where did Lorraine Orr get her genetics from??? The 612 Orr is something I really need to finish the last pieces of the genetic puzzle that's baffled me for so long. (uh- oh... I hear the pumpkin police outside...gotta run)

4/1/2004 1:33:27 AM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

Jack pollinated Jill.....BTW

4/1/2004 1:35:55 AM

New York

Marc,
My 579 was grown from the 1985 WPC winner Scott Cully (515.4lbs.).....which in turn was grown from a 400+ Howard Dill seed. The 579 is definitely a Dill and not related to Gancarz or Wright

On the other hand...my 589 from '89 is Gancarz all the way....which happens to be the great,great,great,great,great grandmother of the 723 and 845 Bobier. All these seeds go back to the 390 Gancarz in 1984....which in turn was from the seed stock Gancarz used during the 70's into mid 80's.

Here's where I think a lot of it began. There were 3 big names who attended a weigh-off in 1976 called Cornell's in PA ...these people were Howard Dill, Ed Gancarz, and Harold Fulp Jr. I understand all 3 of these growers were in the high 200 pound range. BUT....the winner that day weighed in at 451 pounds...and the world saw it's first 400 pound pumpkin in 73 years. The world record that had stood since 1903 had been broken (Imagine Steve Daletas holding the record until the year 2076). The grower was Bob Ford from PA....I never heard anything else from this grower.

Okay...this is what I think happened. Howard was really trying to develop the "ORANGE" in these fruits...with the simple goal that the general public wouldn't buy into these giant pumpkins if they were green, pink, white...ect....BASICALLY NOT ORANGE. I'm guessing the 451 wasn't very orange in color and probably looked more like a squash than pumpkin. The 451 doesn't get credit for breaking the 403 in the record books....Howard is credited with breaking it in '79 at 438.5 pounds. Howard would then go on to break the all time record in 1980 at 459 pounds.....at the same weigh-off the 451 was weighed 4 years earlier. I know Ed believes the 451 broke the '03 record for PUMPKIN that day....and I'm guessing Howard would believe it to be a SQUASH record....the 451 WAS A REAL FRUIT...no one disagrees on the weight that day..........

4/2/2004 7:53:39 AM

New York

I've been told that Ed Gancarz was simply impressed with the massive fruit...he never really cared too much about color. Orange being great if you can get it , but pure weight being even better. I know Ed used seeds from this 451...I don't recall Howard being interested since he was very close to meeting his own goals at that time. What the 451 was grown from I have no idea!!
The next year (1977) Harold Fulp Jr grows the first squash weighing over 500 pounds....513 pounds and an easy new record...my memory is really blurred here, but I think it was grown from the 451....giving theory that the 451 wasn't very orange the year before.

Howard goes on to meet his goals and produces not only beautiful orange fruit, but massive ones as well...and begins to set records. Howard is the KING of these giant orange pumpkins. He spent a great deal of time and effort developing what we see today...He was ahead of his time.

4/2/2004 7:58:00 AM

New York

Ed and Bob Ganzarz's seeds start throwing monsters in the '80's...'84 being the first big year. It wasn't uncommon for people to say "that's a Gancarz pumpkin" at the weigh off's...they had huge stems...very thick wide ribs....and usually very heavily netted skin. Many of them were freaky looking....many having green and orange mixed...and heavy. Talking with Ed during the 80's, I know he and Bob basically threw in seeds from their pumpkins that looked right....with one goal in mind...the bigger the better. Unlike Howard, most of the Gancarz early pumpkins were open pollinated...that's squash and pumpkins mixed. It was more of a guessing game with seeds being grown from the most promising pumpkins each year. I remember 1986 well...they came in with 4 fruit that day....2 pumpkins and 2 squash. ALL FOUR smashed the previous World Record that day one after another...one at a time..."NEW WORLD RECORD". Most people today can't relate to those weights then, they appear small by today's standards. It would be like someone coming in with 4- 1500 pounders today....perhaps not even that. We all know 1500 will be set....back them we didn't know if Norm Gallaghers 612 pumpkin would ever be beat....it took 73 years for the 403 to go down....just how long will the 612 last? The 612 was grown from the pumpkin shown on Howard's early seed packets by the way....the one with his niece standing next to it. Dill's seed set the new mark in '84.

4/2/2004 7:59:09 AM

New York

1985 isn't a bad guess as to when the seeds started to mix. Ed grew my 579 in '87...again a Dill seed. The raw open pollinated Gancarz seed mixed with the controlled Dill seed. My guess is there was always some mixing going on, but not much. The NJ guys grew a lot of their own seeds during that time. Gancarz brothers ruled the pumpkin world from '84 to '90. I had a chance to visit the NJ guys in '87. Big pumpkins were everywhere. Why the 816 Gancarz pumpkin is still the state record shocks me...I pictured those guys staying on top for awhile.

In the end....all that was needed was a spark!!!!.....I think that day in October 1976 was the spark!! It proved to a few very motivated people that maybe, just maybe, 451 pounds was only the start. It may have taken 73 years...but "let's see what we can do next year" Add to that a little competition between two different thinking people...and only bigger things can happen. My guess is the competitive gardens in 1977 took on a whole new meaning from the years before.

4/2/2004 8:01:59 AM

Southeast Wisconsin

Great Stuff Alan.

Russ
Southeast WI

4/2/2004 9:12:48 PM

Colorado Hail, CO. Elev. 5,900 FT

I appriciate your time and knowledge Alan. I tracked down a lot of this info, and it does jive with your info.... matter of fact, this is about the best accurate info I trust yet. I have a few thoughts I'd like to run by you if you have the time to chit chat over the weekend. The CIA pumpkin police might be on to us, so gotta get this info before its too late....

4/2/2004 9:18:10 PM

New York

And yes...my 9 year retirement was due to the pumpkin police....lol!!
I came very close to locating photos of the '76 weigh-off. Another grower that was there had taken many of them...unfortunately he could no longer find them at the time we talked. It would have been interesting to see the birth site of modern competition as we know it today.

4/3/2004 7:39:27 AM

In the shade - PDX, OR

Thanks for sharing Alan.

Interesting!

4/5/2004 1:17:34 AM