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Melbourne, Australia

i came across a product today which is supposed to prevent/reduce transpiration by applying a thin layer of a polymer to the leaf surface which can last up to 4 weeks. it claims to be able to help prevent wilting during hot weather- perhaps a great alternative to misting systems where water restrictions prevent thier use.
has anyone come across or used anything like this? is it effective/does it make a worthwhile difference? would there be negative effects of sealing the leaf surface?

3/10/2004 5:31:44 AM

[email protected]

Wilt-Pruf, Transfilm, etc. A friend of mine has invented a spray that lasts 13-17 times longer than wilt-Pruf & also contains UV blockers. I used it in a Prizewinner (the pumpkin) 3 years ago. The fruit had btter color & was larger than the rest. But when I inquired as to it's use here I was reminded of the "no coating on the fruit" rules. Since shade has been a problem (before the strategic tree removal this fall) I didn't dare shade the foliage.

These could help if you're "water challenged".

Steve

3/10/2004 7:19:32 AM

Nj

Possible Negative effects?

Here's my take:
'transpiration reducing' says it all...

Transpiration allows water and NUTRIENTS to be drawn up through the roots. I would think that if you reduce transpiration you reduce the flow of nutrients and the efficiency of photosynthesis...

3/10/2004 12:06:23 PM

WHOAAA back the transpiration train up here! Transpiration occurs in the LEAVES, not the roots! Transpiration is the loss of water out of the leaves of plants through the stomata, the tiny openings on the undersides of leaves. Through these same holes CO2 comes IN so the plant can undergo photosynthesis. Transiration has to deal with WATER, not nutrients in the roots!

I don't think these products would be good for pumpkins...desert plants and succulents have adaptations to slow transpiration, but at the same time they are slowing their intake of CO2 - that's why they grow so slow...they have to conserve water, but at the same time they slow their photosynthesis. Putting something like this on pumpkins would slow transpiration, but also slow growth of the plant, and you would end up with a smaller plant, and probably a smaller pumpkin.

3/10/2004 1:56:24 PM

Western NY

i think he was referring to the fact that transpiration is the force (at least the main one as far as i know) that moves things. it has to do with capillary action. the water leaving the leaf pulls water from the rest of the plant, in turn pulling water from the roots.

as far as putting things on the fruit, i wouldn't worry about the "legality" of an anti-transpirant. same thing as with the people that add calcium to the fruit. it's absorbed into the skin, and shouldn't really affect the weight of the fruit directly.

3/10/2004 3:17:33 PM

Nj

Exactly, slowing transpiration slows the energy creation process down. Slowing it down at the leaves creates a chain reaction all the way down to the roots, the plant isn't going to take in any water if it's not thirsty.
If it's not taking in water from the roots the nutrients are sitting there as well. While you don't want your plant to be parched you don't want it just sitting there with the same water in it because that means nothing is happening. You want to maximize transpiration not reduce it.

3/10/2004 4:37:18 PM

Montoursville, PA

Well now...that is a dandy line. Those of you that enjoy the science of fact can take a leaf this summer and treat the leaf per transpiration product instructions. Now get out the microscope and see for yourself the partially blocked stoma and top surface. The product is a polymer. It is rather final once placed. It is reportedly good for overwintering dormant foundation plants like azalia and juniper which are at rest. In six months or so rain has erroded it off and the plant is free to breathe again in its new growth as well as most but not all of it's old growth. In other words some of the old stays plugged up because rain could not errode it off the plant.

The only place I would use this product would be on a Christmas Wreath. Florists use it all the time on cut flower arrangements. It gives them an extra day or two of showtime. Some of the new sprays have florists tints built in. Maybe we could tint a wash tub and have a pumpkin that would never rot. :)

I know the product well....I do not believe is is intended to be used on tender growing plants of any species.

3/10/2004 5:23:54 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Brigitte, very good explanation. Thanks.

3/10/2004 5:26:07 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

Yikes! Ill never get this right....so when my leaves are wilted over in the hot sun like week old salad ....That's good since the transpiration is causing the roots to suck more water.....was always told if it's wilting it ain't happy if it ain't happy it ain't growing...oh what i wouldn't do for a summer of sun that never got hotter then 80!! LOL

3/10/2004 8:08:29 PM

OK here's the scoop straight from my class notes LOL.... When a plant has water stress, the stomata close to prevent more water loss. Where Want to Pump You Up is getting his ideas is the Transpiration Cohesion Theory. Basically the evaporation of water out of the stomata causes a pull in the plant that sucks water up the xylem (xylem = transport of water and dissolved nutrients). The water evaporation causes more water to come out of the xylem into plant cells via osmosis...sorda like a person sucking pop up a straw. The plant doesn't use energy to suck the water up...it sorda gets pulled up because water molecules tend to "stick" to each other.

3/10/2004 9:41:40 PM

one more little tidbit of info....of the water that plants absorb:

more than 90% is transpired
less than 1% is used in photosynthesis, reactions, etc.
1-7 % is used in growth of the plant (or, ya know, pumpkin)

3/10/2004 9:45:58 PM

[email protected]

Time for another $.02

If water transpires from the stomates at a rate greater than the roots ability to draw from the soil solution, the moisture in the roots goes down relative to the salt content held within. That salt content is what causes osmosis in the first place, so with the increasing salinity, the pull on water is increased. When the "foliar pull" exceeds the soil water/root pull/vascular movement capacity, we see wilt. It is only at these times that the plant might benefit from a foliar applied anti-transpirant. But since they last much longer than the wilting event, there may be a negative impact during non-water-stress periods.
My "patent collecting" friend has some evidence that his anti-transpirant (it's not a ploymer) could be exhibitting an almost "smart" aspect to it's performance. With the adjustment of UV inhibition, he thinks he can dial up performance during midday. Then at night it would "relax" it's activity.
We don't talk about it much any more & I'm nearly out of my trial material. Everyone over the age of 10 has eaten the stuff (without the UV inhibitor) with no ill effect. Guesses?

3/10/2004 10:17:03 PM

Montoursville, PA

Man it's gotta be made like gum drops.....______babbies or _____toes. That and an ample dose of Lepage's Glue, the third grade official licking glue, just about covers everyone.

3/10/2004 10:35:19 PM

Nj

Hey alexsdad, yeah it would be nice for nature to provide ideal conditions 24/7 ;) You have it right though, you want good growing conditions for as much time as possible while the plant is in the ground, unfortunately nature doesn't do that. I hereby dare nature to provide ideal conditions in NJ this year. lol. Double dog dare ya nature... ya hear that?

3/10/2004 10:43:52 PM

Deer Park WA

Don't clog up the poor plants support system (leaves) with to much of anything (ferts, salts, or wonder transpirants) balance your applications with nature and common sense. Glazing off of your leaves will shut down many of the plants natural activities, stress it out, and result in stunted developement of the fruit. Kinda like what has happened to Tom's personality. LOL!

3/10/2004 11:40:21 PM

Indiana

Something tells me you meant that, and it wasnt meant as a joke......dont care either way LOL

I'm going anti Gadberry, and fertilizing every day next year.

Tom

3/11/2004 12:04:09 AM

Melbourne, Australia

thanks everyone, certainly sounds like a general 'no'- my own suspicions confirmed... oh well, i may still test it out on one plant next year to see how it goes as i had big problems with wilting to the extent that many leaves were severely burnt. just another thing to think about as a possible improvement next time. andrew

3/11/2004 12:25:55 AM

Wichita, KS

Brigitte
If i am understanding you correctly, ieal conditions for growing pumpkins/squash would exist if grown in a warm, dry environment, in low salt soil that is kept very wet by the grower. The dry, warm air amplifies transpiration, the higher salinity in the plant keeps the osmosis going, and the moisture in the soil remaining constant keeps the plant from wilting. Right?

If this is right, wouldn't it be better to soak your soil during the hottest times in the season than to mist the plant? It would seem that misting the plant would slow down transpiration, and therefore slow down the intake of h2o and the nutrients that come with it.

Am I on the right track?

Toby

3/11/2004 1:28:21 AM

Melbourne, Australia

this site makes the stuff sound quite useful- http://www.antistress.com/ASman6.html

brigitte, as you mentioned, xylem tissues do carry water but as i remember it is the phloem tissues which carry nutrients in plants and that these two systems are more or less seperate. whether this makes a difference in the absorption of nutrients at the roots i am unsure- my study of plant biology was not that extensive.

3/11/2004 8:57:13 AM

[email protected]

WOW! Good call Dwaine!!! Licking glue is close enough. First responser too. I owe you one in Niagara.

Sodium silicate was used to adhere pstage stamps, envelopes, all kinds of stuff. Still used as a glue & fire retardent.

Bob is a chemical PHd & rumored to be genius. If he can conquer the flexibility issue & change the stomate clogging issue at ideal growth periods he'll have it made. Big IF though.

Toby don't oversoak. If water excludes oxygen, then wilting points are again lowered. Roots need air for the pull to work. The transpiration rates even exceed the wilt points in New Hampshire. But I'll wager not to the extremes other growers plants endure.

3/11/2004 9:26:49 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Back in the autumn someone told me that hairspray contains the same stuff (I can't remember the name but 500 might have been in it somewhere) that they spray on xmas trees to stop the needles dropping.
Never tried it on pumpkin leaves but at least it should make them smell nice!

3/11/2004 3:21:43 PM

zoanix.....xylem carries water and dissolved nutrients up from roots (a one way path). phloem carries dissolved sugars made in photosynthesis from sources (leaves) to sinks (fruit, roots, etc.)....it can flow both ways in the stem to where it is needed.

3/11/2004 3:27:35 PM

Wichita, KS

When I was a kid I would hold a lighter in front of hairspray to make a flame thrower. It freaked out my sisters. Pretty stupid, huh?

Why in the world would you spray a Christmas tree with hairspray?!? =^O

3/11/2004 5:22:23 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Wiltpruf S600 is an anti-transpirant that can be sprayed on xmas trees to help stop the needles falling on the carpet after they have been in a warm room for a while,the guy told me that hairspray does the same thing.
I just looked on my daughters spraycan and it does contain polymer,back at the time I was trying to get this chap to reveal a hush hush secret on how to keep exhibition potatoes white for longer he said "what do you put on up here" whilst patting his head,my first reply was "hair restorer"(at this stage I thought he was pulling my leg because I am a slaphead)but I eventually got around to hairspray.

3/11/2004 6:53:38 PM

Wichita, KS

lol!

3/12/2004 11:53:38 PM