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Butler,PA([email protected])

I would like to ask for some help in establishing the sizes on my new patch. I have alot of flexibility with it this year. Square footage is not an issue. My question is, what would be the ideal dimensions for one plant? Take into consideration what the main vine length should be and how long the secondaries should then be. Thank you for the help.
Chip.

2/5/2004 5:37:12 PM

San Diego

Chip,

There are different opinions about best patch size. An ideal patch size for many people is around 400-600 sq foot. I personally like a patch that is 30 feet wide, 20 feet long. Let all the secondaries run 14 to 15 feet on each side of the main vine and run the main right down the middle and end it at 20 feet. I would try to get a pumpkin on the main between 12 to 20 feet out so most of the plant is infront of the set pumpkin. This is one idea for you, sure others will chime in for other options. Jim

2/5/2004 6:11:31 PM

Montoursville, PA

I think the Duster Report here is excellent. Butler, Pa. is very close to a couple of darn good growers. Hope you can get to know them.

2/5/2004 8:35:20 PM

Nova Scotia

i agree mostly with duster. i would perffer 12' sides each way with a 24' main and 6' space from the edge of your garden from the base of the plant so the main roots can go back if they like. or if your planting back to back plants 12' between them. then when the main reaches your goal, cut of 3 leaves at the front and buiry a foot deep and water well. i'm of the theory that the middle of your plant is the most ideal.

2/5/2004 8:55:12 PM

Wisconsin

I use to think about my patch size and shape like Duster described above where I would try to match the green part of the plant to best utilize my available space. This is how one would intuitively think about the plant because the it is the vines and leaves that you can actually see.

Now I try to look at it from the standpoint of optimizing the area for the roots. Articles on pumpkin root systems show that the main tap root goes straight down (to up to 4-6 ft) and then the secondary and tertiary roots come off the taproot and go out as far as 15-20 feet in a 360 degree circle from the planting site. In other words, the primary root system occupies a circle around the planting site with a radius of 15-20 ft or more. If you plant your seeds on one edge of your garden, you are only allowing half the roots (or 180 degrees of this radius) to stay in your prime soil zones.

I am sure that many people have done this and grown big pumpkins but if you are starting from scrtach maybe it makes more sense to use a pattern like Duster describes but also allow for a 15-20 ft radius of prime soil (as deep as possible) around the actual planting site. I have been trying to place my plants in my garden in a pattern like this.

Using this reasoning, maybe the patch should be 30 ft wide x 35-40 ft long eventhough the vines and leaves would only occupy 600 sq ft of this. Food for thought.

2/5/2004 9:09:02 PM

Deer Park, WI

I would have to agree with duster as well. However, i prefer a slightly larger plant size, 600-750 sq ft. 15 ft secondaries are about perfect in my opinion. Grow the main out to about 20 and terminate. Im assuming x-mas style pruning pattern too. I also like to set fruit closer to the stump, say 10-12 feet. Up in Wisconsin, I need as many fruit growing days as possible. If i have to wait for a fruit to set at 16feet or more, thats getting into the second half of july to pollinate. The difference two weeks growing time could be up to 200lbs or more.

2/5/2004 9:14:37 PM

my plants will be about identical to dusters....20 foot main by 30 foot wide....600 sq. ft. i will have two this way, planted back to back in the center of the patch...to allow for maximum roots-in-patch like Jim R mentioned.

2/5/2004 11:16:56 PM

Nova Scotia

wow i had no idea that the root systems could be so extensive. but don't fret chip for i only have 6" of soil ontop of solid rock and still managed to get a 900lber in under 50 day's. personaly i think one may want to limit root development similar to vine development (if root do go so large) for it is all a balance of root to foliage to fruit which your fertilizer should regulate.

2/6/2004 12:10:22 AM

Caceres, mid west of Spain

For me each plant: 30' long (main vine), 18' width (9' each secondary) and 5-6' tillage and weed free space all around each plant. That space is for the root system, because I want them to be larger than the leaf system. I believe that is more natural for the plant and for our goals.
This way gives you 540 sq ft leaf area and around 1000 sq ft root area. Should be even more necesary in warm countries.

Carlos

2/6/2004 4:06:05 AM

going off of what mr. T said.....do you guys think that roots could actually be a sink? I'm learning about sink/source in my Bio course right now, and it got me thinking... phloem tissue does transport some stuff back down to the roots to give them nourishment...so I am assuming that they would be a sink as well, in addition to flowers, excess vine growth, and the actual fruit

2/6/2004 2:19:33 PM

ipswich, ma usa

Lets think about our main vines this growing season and is terminating them really the way we want to go? You only need to look up at the NH boys and see what they brought to Topsfield last October. Most of them no longer terminate their mains. I was at Bruce Whittiers patch last summer and the 1458 and 1301 had mains that were never terminated. They naturally slowed down, but the theory was don't term the tip and energy will continue to flow through the main to the tip. The pumpkin then grabs at the energy as it goes by. Term the tip and slow down the flow. Don't know if it has any basis but I would have to say from the results I've seen I think that will be they way myself and a few other growers will be heading in this year.

John (5150)

2/6/2004 3:07:03 PM

[email protected]

Brigitte,

Roots of woody ornamentals, turf, & other perennials certainly are sinks. Carbohydrate storage is big business at certain times of the year. It doesn't seem likely that summer annuals behave this way...but....

I never gave this much thought. Is there anyone you can consult?

Steve

2/6/2004 5:11:55 PM

Deer Park, WI

Roots are absolutely sinks...any tissue that is actively growing is a sink. The roots cant magically suck in water and expect root tissue to appear, it sends the water up to the leaves, the leaves do their photosynthesis thing, then they send the root building blocks (carbohydrate) back downstairs. However, most of this bizness takes place before the fruit are set, otherwise there would be a lot of competition for nutrients betwixt the fruit and root system, not to mention the leaves, tendrils, flowers, vines, etc.

2/6/2004 7:14:32 PM

as for main vine termination...i think the growing pumpkins sucks up much of the energy on the way down the main vine....for example, i couldn't even get a fruit to set on the main vine after i already had one growing on it.

2/6/2004 10:04:41 PM

[email protected]

Roors are definatly sinks early season Yes. But I wonder how long they remainb so after vines are terminated. Not at all? Or just a while? Or do they continue growing?

Maybe it's time to break with the moola schmula & finance a real deal indoor hydroponic super pumpkin research facility. We should be able to finance one for a couple hundred large per year. LOL

Seriously though. Veiwing & recording time elapsed root progress would be too cool.

2/7/2004 8:39:27 AM

Butler,PA([email protected])

Thank you to all. This is exactly what I'm looking for.

2/7/2004 12:50:51 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Brewing Compost Tea
Tap your compost pile to make a potion that is both fertilizer and disease prevention

by Elaine R. Ingham

http://www.taunton.com/finegardening/pages/g00030.asp

2/7/2004 2:23:59 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

Yikes! Makes ya think a bit...when I first try to grow em they said ys needed 1200 square foot a plant now everybody is downsizing and pruning every other secondary...maybe it's not the green on top but the root system...seems to me we worry an awful lot about the leaves...looks like from these comments it's keep the main solid and the root area going...so edge planting a stump would be better off center planting and growing out...very interesting! I did notice last year that all my edge plants were well rooted into the outside leaf compost never gave it much thought then but will for now on...I thought the leaf compost was attracting the roots not the fact that they might be looking for more room. I love this site!!!

2/7/2004 3:48:08 PM