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Joliet, IL

Because I live 10 minutes from Stateville Prison
this thought occurred to me one day after driving by it.
I have heard of rehabilitation programs in some prisons
that involve gardening. There was a English movie about
prisoners growing a competition flower garden called
"Greenfingers". With all the land out at Stateville
I thought, what a great way to give prisoners a reason
to care deeply about something. That something being
the joy of growing atlantic giants. Some might say let
them scumbags stay in there cell and rot. I am not one
to judge, I will let that work go to the Big Guy in the
sky.

So my question is, are there any prisons in the world
that grow competition vegetables by their prisoners
or has anyone ever thought about introducing giant
pumpkin growing to correctional facilities and troubled
youth centers?

1/13/2004 1:20:33 PM

Omaha, NE (N41-15-42 )

Better hope no one hides in one in an escape attempt.

1/13/2004 1:32:41 PM

[email protected]

Interesting thought. It does make sense what with all that taxpayer provided land burning up lawn mowing expense. Why not?

1/13/2004 1:38:29 PM

Food for thought....I did a research paper this semester on horticultural therapy. There have been studies that show less depression and hostility in prisons that have a hort. therapy program. Hort. Therapy is also used at rehabilitation centers, homes for the elderly, disabled, etc. There is one college that I found (don't remember where it's located) where you can get a degree in Hort. Therapy. If you guys want more info, I can dig up my paper and post parts of it.

So in that case, giant pumpkins probably would be beneficial to a prison environment. :-)

1/13/2004 1:50:57 PM

Sequim, WA

I've thought of it before, but then they would all want to go to the weighoff!

1/13/2004 2:26:47 PM

wilmington,ma.

I gave a bunch of seeds to a prison in the next town.
Also how to instructions on growing[all that i knew]not much!! Never heard from them again .I guess they all got away.

1/13/2004 2:32:39 PM

Hayes, Virginia

I know of a better idea, Lets give pumpkin growing lessons to all the people that were hurt,raped or worse (if there is a worse) by those goody-two-shoes in the prisons.Maybe it will help them cope with the loss they suffer.sorry Shazzy not trying to be mean to you sounds like your heart is in the right place,just i see it a little different.

1/13/2004 3:41:52 PM

Joliet, IL

Mr.D&ME,
i hear what you are saying, but not all people in prison
are rapists and murderers. a lot of them are there from
America's war on drugs policy, doing 5 to 10 for getting mixed up in the wrong crowd at an early age and paying for it every day. these are the people who go into jail
for non-violent offenses and come out worse than when
they went in, meaner and more anti-social than before,
and when they get out they are now more of a threat to
society than ever. there are some good people in prison
that did stupid non-violent things. and if i hear the
response a drug dealer is a major threat to society and
should just sit in jail and rot because of the harm drugs
do to people, then i would say bulls--t...your local
liquor store sells more drugs than anyone in town.
those prisoners are people too, and some of them would
greatly benefit from a chance to grow something they
loved and cared for so when they get out, they will have
a solid foundation to build upon. that's my 2 cents.

1/13/2004 4:59:50 PM

Grants Pass, Oregon

It all sounds good Shazzy until you get the ones that are repeat offenders, They swear they wont do it again but there they are again. I am talking from experience on this. No I have never been in prison.

1/13/2004 5:39:16 PM

C N Y

they've gotten away with enough.
i'm sorry to say that in a world where a mass murderer or
monster of crime of unspeakable horror can write a book about his daily travels or be the basis for a made-for-TV
(barf!) movie, the last thing PRISONERS, or actually WE need, is for them to have another outlet----they are in there for a reason! please pick another group of people.
now, the homeless.....well, just haven't been caught yet.
sorry i just happen to want to leave THAT bees' nest ALONE.

1/13/2004 7:45:26 PM

Puyallup, WA

I worked in a Federal Prison for several years and learned
alot how the minds of criminals work. This prison had a farm. I could not tell the difference in the behavior of those who worked in prison industries and those that worked out on the farm.

I'll tell you one thing...I have no sympathy for those repeat offenders.....period!

1/13/2004 7:58:28 PM

Kenyon, Mn.

I'm siding with Shazzy on this one,I made a mistake when I was 18, a drug charge, haven't done them since; however, I didn't belong in prison, today, the same crime and you pay a ticket, I got 5 years and spent 18 months behind bars, When the doors closed, my lesson was learnt. Today you can rape, kidnap and even murder and have a good chance of spending less time than I did. Yes, prisoner programs in horticulture does wonderous things and Shazzy, you should pursue it. I am not ashamed of what I did 31 years ago, and I don't regret a thing, prison; if I would have been there longer, would have had a detremental affect on me.

1/13/2004 8:14:10 PM

Hayes, Virginia

Mr.Bumpy,I'M happy for you and i agree with you.I was no angel either been there done that.You have people that make wrong choices,(like us) and people who just dont want to do right.Tommy my cousin who was in the wrong place at the wrong time in 74 is still in his coffin the man who put him there was out in 12....it just dont add up to me...shazzy you sound like a great person and i hope you get your program off the ground..I think i will stick with teaching P&R basketball for the kids and drive my meals on wheels every wendesday for the ole folks ..to each his own .best to you and yours shazzy...

1/13/2004 9:54:02 PM

New Hampshire

I work with for a ministry that is a small working farm that helps young adults(18-30 years old) with various issues. We raise beef, pork, poultry, several acres of gardens, cut our own firewood, make our own maple syrup and so on. I started a pumpkin club with our students a couple of years ago that has proven to be very sucessful. These young people have a blast raising these pumpkins. They put their heart and soul into their plants and learn lessons of all types from dealing with failure to dealing with success and everything in between. We are not a prison, these "kids" can leave any time they want. Many of these kids stick through the program because of the investment they put into their plants. It has been fun and worth while to say the least, I say go for it. By the way here are some of the weights they have grown over the last 3 years. 1082,1005, 995, 865, 795, 794, 766, not to shabby. Jim Ford

1/13/2004 10:16:10 PM

Deer Park WA

I had the misfortune of being a controls system supervisor in a medium security prison for 6 years, and I personaly don't like the idea of being compeated against by murders, rapists and child molesters.

1/14/2004 1:19:48 AM

Ljubljana, Slovenia

I generally support the idea. Especially in Slovenia we have imprisoned mainly the small fish while the big ones are on power. I guess in US is not much better.

1/14/2004 4:36:52 AM

Kenyon, Mn.

Gad's here's the deal, The prison weight lifters are not allowed to compete with the outside, in so much as records,titles etc.I don't know what they would do with pumpkins.Outside teams came in to compete. Huge men,by street standards,Dwarfed by the prison team who ate,slept and dreamed competition.Visitors were out lifted always. Now maybe thats your problem, secondly, in most systems the real bad apples aren't privey to such programs. My solution for murders,rapists and ecspecially child molesters is clear cut, no trial, fry them and quit wasting tax dollars on them

1/14/2004 8:03:28 AM

White Plains, NY

Mr. D&ME,

I'M WITH YOU !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Capt

1/14/2004 11:48:07 AM

Itzetown City

Pumpkin growing in prison? Why not? But what´s about carving them without knifes? LOL

1/14/2004 12:18:32 PM

northern indiana

Murders, rapists, and child molesters. Why is that all people seem to think are in prison? How many of you have?
exceeded the leagal speed limit by more than 20 mph?
walked out (on purpos or not) with out paying for something in your bag from a store?
drove after having consumed too much alcohol?
participated in a contest of speed on public roadways in a motor vehicle?
found money and not turned it in at the police dept.
Lied to get out of jury duty?
tried illegal drugs?
used prescription medication not perscribed to you
used prescription medication perscribed to you for a previous condition not directly related to the one at hand?
engadged in various types of sexual conduct. ( you know what i mean) even though you may be married to him or her
This is just a short list of some things that people are currently sitting in jail or prision for.
what makes those of you who said yes to any one of these things so much better than them? THEY GOT CAUGHT YOU DIDN'T!
the prison system is jammed full of people who got caught doing these types of things. This is not to say that many of them dont belong there or that there are no Murders, rapists, or child molesteres in prison. There are thousands of them. But there is a large percentage of people who could benifit from some guidance, direction, and help.
Our prison system in this country is obviously a failure. For over 200 years the population of prisioners has grown faster then the population of the country. The repeat offender numbers are way too high. so when you say "what about their victems!" ask yourself what about their future victems? you cant keep everyone locked up forever. You cant shoot em all and let god sort them out. Remember many of you who answered yes would also be shot if you are or were caught. Light nonviolent offenders should be kept away from the animals that the system has captured and or created, and given a chance. Get real folks.

1/14/2004 6:54:46 PM

Puyallup, WA

The major failure of our criminal system is the certainty of punishment!! In addition, far too many of those in prison are mentally deficient. Stupidity is permenant!
We have around 15% of the population with IQ's lower than 85. When your "elevaor does not go to the top floor", one frequently is manipulated by bad people to do "bad things".
Would you prefer that we segregate the prisoners by their IQ?

1/14/2004 7:12:52 PM

northern indiana

no separate them by class of crime

1/14/2004 8:11:06 PM

Joliet, IL

thanx to all posters. i respect everyone's right to
their own opinions. i was looking for more factual
information like brigette's horticultural therapy.
it never even occurred to me that their would be a negative
response. i never even thought about having inmates
compete with the general population. i just thought
the joy of growing giant pumpkins could do some good for those trying to get back on the right track in an
environment that offers little hope or encouragement.
they could set there own records and have their own competitions in their own prisons or against other prisons.
once again, i am reminded where the phrase "opinions are like assholes" comes from.

Mr. Bumpy, i appreciate your honesty...a person like you
back 31 years ago in a f--k-d up system is more like
what i had in mind of offering hope to those in similar
situations. sorry to ruffle the wing feathers of
all the angels and saints out there.

1/15/2004 12:37:07 AM

mcminnville oregon

sheridan oregon!! 04 ////federal prison. most offenders are there for dope!!! so they already have a green thumb???

1/15/2004 12:48:55 AM

Hayes, Virginia

We cant saved the world,lets try to save the one's worth saving.
CHKD.
MAKE A WISH.
VETRANS.
GOOD LUCK SHAZZY

1/15/2004 12:58:31 AM

Mill Creek West by god Virginia

hell i live only 2 miles from huttonsville state prison here in west virginia and i gotta say no,all the inmates would do would be to find a way to make punkin wine out of any punkingrown,just like the watermelons the grew hidden in the farm commisions corn patch last year,a friend of mine who runs the k9 there kept finding watermellon wine hidden around the prison and yes he was glad when i found there patch!so i gotta say no

1/15/2004 1:14:09 AM

North Ga

I did 2 1/2 years on the "chain gang" for armed robbery back in the 70s. The main prison in Jackson Ga. Had a farm detail for trustees to raise veggies and a few head of cattle. I was in maximum security so I didn't get to see what was happening but we ate what they grew and the cattle that they raised. That sounds good for a prison, but I don't think giant pumpkin growing would be too practical.

1/15/2004 7:39:45 AM

North Ga

By the way, I overcame that time of my life and now I'm a useful contributor to society. I have even served on a jury and have a permit to carry!! Only in America!! LOL

1/15/2004 7:44:51 AM

Kenyon, Mn.

Shazzy, It did get far from your intent; however, some good points were brought up and one must respect thier opinions, even if we disagree. There would be great interest from prison inmates growing pumpkins, the only down side I see would be the amount of space needed for the plot.Kudo's to Pappy for stepping in the fire with me and admitting his past,Hapdad, you were Right on,Dave(7),there is a whole different "political" scandal involved with your post, and Burrhead, I have a GREAT RECIPE for PUMPKIN WINE!! Shazzy I am going to do some surfing today and see if I can come up with any useful info, sorry , but I may have sent this down the wrong path myself
Phil

1/15/2004 8:00:52 AM

Mill Creek West by god Virginia

bumpy post recipe and i have a few friends that would love to try it,thanks burrhead

1/17/2004 1:14:03 AM

Kenyon, Mn.

Burrhead, having puter problems, email me and and maybe post it for me? or just pass it on, will be online on fiance's computer so I can check my mail. Phil

1/19/2004 9:49:46 PM