Message Board - BigPumpkins.com

Webster, NY

Two thoughts. I'm not sure I agree with "hording". But in the same sense, no one really knows what the next "hot" seed will be. People collect seeds in the hope that they will get an good one and then be able to grow something spectacular. If I get just the 2 seeds I'm going to grow next year, my odds of having a real good one goes way down.

It also might be true that seeds were meant to be planted, but consider this. If there are 200 growers out there, and they each grow 2 pumpkins, and they each get about 300 seeds from each fruit, that's already 120,000 seeds. I am not sure they are all going to be planted unless they are just scattered in a field. I'd rather have a few seeds in the hands of a grower, waiting with the chance it will get planted.

Just my opinion.

1/11/2004 4:27:36 PM

Cowpie

Ontario

Let's see...I grew 5 pumpkins last year and averaged at least 300 seeds per pumpkin. That's 1500 seeds. Am I to expect 1500 people to plant my seeds? I'd rather trade them or give then out so there's at least a chance they're planted and gather other people's pumpkin seeds to give me options for planting or trading in coming years. Does it serve any point having your pumpkin seeds sitting in jars in the basement? If that turns your crank, so be it. I'd rather make trades and friends through trading.

1/11/2004 4:32:16 PM

Drew Papez [email protected]

Appalachian Mtns.

Seed trading is just like baseball card trading...it's fun, it gets seed circulated, and all parties involved get something they're happy with, therefore it brings pleasure. If baseball card collectors only had 1 or 2 cards each then that wouldn't be much fun now would it?
My little boy is just like his daddy, except with Yu-Gi-Oh cards...and he's pretty shrewd too. He trades up for the cards he wants or thinks will do better than the others, just like pumpkin seeds. Trading is as natural as grass is green, and it's been done since the beginning of time. How do you think people got what they wanted before money was invented?
If there could be only one argument in favor for seed collecting/hoarding/trading it would be the point made by Dave and Phil...there are simply way more seed out there than there are growers, by a large, large, large margin. What would one have the growers do with them if not trade?
Then there would be thousands of seeds sitting in jars with no chance of being grown.
Personally, I think those against seed collecting and trading are immature and selfish. There's always those that can't stand to see others doing something that makes them feel good...bah-humbug.

1/11/2004 4:58:16 PM

ontario

seed trading is just part of the sport......if we had a crystal-ball it would not be necessary..I enjoy the quest to find each years seeds.....I have given many top seeds away just to help out a fellow grower, man thats what its about .I grew a 1088 .953....801....756.8* and 740 this year....I doubt out of the approx. 1500 plus seeds that 1% get planted, out of that I am growing the 1088.953 and 756.8*....hey I wish everyone would plant them, but lets be real here, its doubtful....I would rather give them away to growers than have them sit in my drawers, always the chance someone just might plant them....if you don't agree don't send bubble-pacs......simple solution.....

1/11/2004 5:41:58 PM

docgipe

Montoursville, PA

I said I never would collect and store seed. Well I lied. Some people on this board have come to know me and visa versa. It is pure excitement for me to have received seed from growers I have come to know and even a couple from those I hope to know better. Now won't we all be tickled to death if my cross equals or betters their ma ma. At least one of the ma ma seeds grew a pumpkin over 1100 this year.
...You all call 300 seeds as a reasonable number of seeds. My two pumpkins this year gave me over 500 and 600 to share.
I would love to share their interesting potential...even with first year growers.

Junior....just what am I to do? Flush them? For now they are hoarded in my storage because the bubbles have stopped arriving. The seed will be available on BP.com seed distribution. They are already available on Seed Outlet.com.

It is a delight to me to tell my non-pumpkin growing buddies that I have two growing in Australia. That I have one seed that has sold for over $300.00, in a recent auction. That I paid $50.00 for one last year just to help my association in it's auction. That that $50.00 seed still has a lot of potential. That I think my own are potentially as good as any other I have come to be the owner of. That my small but growing collection is marked very clearly to be given to my State Association as soon after they plant me, in the final hoarding box, as is possible.

1/11/2004 5:54:30 PM

LIpumpkin

Long Island,New York

We only "hoard" the seeds that God created with the squirrel in mind. Of the 500 seeds in a pumpkin,nature would eat 499 of them,one would remain to propagate the species. Any more and the plants would take over the world...any less and the plant would go extinct. Im SURE we're only playing with the squirrel's and the 'coon's dinner....and they make it up by raiding our garbage at night. A fair trade if you ask me.........G

1/11/2004 6:22:51 PM

Ontario

Well said Wayne, part of the sport is swapping seeds in the off season.Yes I have a fair amount of seeds and it usually takes two years to prove a seed. So what I do is hand out seeds that are 3 years or older to new growers so they may try them and hopefully get them interested in the sport. Yes I agree that seed collecting is wasteful but with the number of pumpkins grown each year it is impossible to plant them all. I look forward to swapping seeds everyyear and is indeed part of the hobby. I gave away a 805 pukos this year and look what happened lol.

1/11/2004 6:23:41 PM

Tom B

Indiana

I agree wayne. Its exceptionally difficult for me packing up my seeds this year because I know most will not plant them, so why waste my time?.......because they do the same for me. Collecting seeds is fun, packing them up sucks. But its a good way to keep in touch with other growers as well.

Tom Beachy

1/11/2004 6:39:23 PM

Tremor

Hoarding is such a strong & negative term. Trading only works if you have something folks want.

Now collecting seed is different entirely. This is a way to capture what *might* some day be a hotty.

My new philosophy.

Never turn down seeds. Hoard whatever shows promise. They might get "HOT". Grow what is "HOT". Give away all the rest (including my own) to folks who are nice. I don't even ask them if they want the seeds. I just send them out asking for nothing in return. This way no one is offended if amnesia sets in.

I've also landed seeds at auction. Never grew any of them. But might if they ever do anything.

I also make all my sales calls with a package or two of my own seeds with me. Some folks enjoy hearing about our hobby. If they express a sincere interest, I hand them a seed package & give them the URL to this website. Kind of a modern day Jonny Pumpkinseed so to speak. My biggest customer grew his first Hundred Pounder this year & was absolutely delighted! LOL

Steve

1/11/2004 7:05:39 PM

lobsterclaw

French River,P.E.Island, Canada

If we're guilty of hoarding I'd have to say we're all guilty ..look around and see what we have, there is a lot less fortunate folks in the world and probably in our
surrounding communities .
Oh yes I forgot ,,,the table scrapes now go to the compost pile for the patch,,,, instead of the garbage bag to be thrown out..........

1/11/2004 7:07:33 PM

dincubus

Aberdeen, SD

Tom, Exactly what i think.
I mean yeah as a first year grower, i did send a lot of bubble packs out. As a matter of fact, you sent me some seed. and what did i do with alot of them, well, i tried to grow your 1097.5... it didnt work out too well, cause like a moron, i first tried to start my seeds in raw garden soil and well there was an ant problem and they ate half the seed.
with a goodly portion of the others i got, i made up a few packets for some family friends, i included a starter sheet, a pumpkin growing guide i found on the net, the port elgin grower's guide, references to this web page and the mallorn list, and contact info for myself. i put about 20 seeds or so in the packet as well, with the appropriate genetics info on the seed and an explanation of the purpose of the genetics info.
i made this know to most of the people who sent me the seed, as a matter of fact one grower sent extra cause he thought the idea of the packets was neat.
I regret it if the genetics collecting i did offended anyone. and tom, i appreciate the seed you sent as well as the others who sent it to me.
this year, i had some seed to send out, and i still have some left. the seed is not from anythign big, well the one i grew wasn't big. i still have some learnign to do and maybe, tom, i will be able to get your 1097.5 to grow right this upcoming season

1/11/2004 7:12:11 PM

dincubus

Aberdeen, SD

and southern, i know i had written you some nasty emails, and i apologize for that now publicly.
i look forward to continuing the "tradition" of growing and sharing seed from all parts of the world.

1/11/2004 7:13:25 PM

ontario

this hobby is for sport and fun......I grow to challenge myself each year, meet new folks and just plain forget about the bs going on in this crazy world...first thing I do when I get home from work is unwind in the patch...yes my stress relief, at least until weigh-off time......then we all get abit stressed, but abit is healthy.....everyone enjoy this fun,cheap hobby....if I looked forward 20 years ago I would have never imagined myself growing pumpkins LOL

1/11/2004 7:31:50 PM

Andy W

Western NY

This is a pretty good thread, and probably the most civil of it's kind so far. a lot of good points have been made that i can't really do a better job of explaining. i will take exception to southern's point about it being like baseball cards. i used to collect/trade cards. the difference is that the cards i gathered almost 20 years ago are still worth as much or more than when i first laid eyes on them. pumpkin seeds, even if stored properly, degrade over time. which is why [applause to drew and others] those of us that have been getting seeds for more than a few years try to clear out some of the older ones so they can get used. i tried germinating a 697 ciliberto that i got in 2003. didn't sprout. someone might have been able to get a nice one a few years ago. that's where the only problem i see comes in. when they just go past their expiration date.

1/11/2004 9:11:37 PM

docgipe

Montoursville, PA

Hey if I stay healthy ten more years on the working end of a hoe my growing time will be about all finished. If this year is an example of the generosity of pumpkin growers and we continue exchanging, trading or just sending seeds to each other I will have be gosh a couple thousand while enjoying the opportunity to grow just twenty seed at the most. If I rest the patch and rebuild every third year the number I can grow will drop to a grand total of fourteen.

1/11/2004 10:11:47 PM

Gads

Deer Park WA

I hoard my best crosses just to get a personalized strain brewing to beat you folks with.

1/11/2004 11:45:30 PM

it is what it is

Streator ,Illinois

Junior,
1st,I am going to blame them Pumpkin clubs for sending all them seeds when I join every year, 2nd I am blaming them auctions and raffles I get into , 3rd I am blaming the generois people who send seeds to me to swap, 4th I want blame Howard Dill for letting me purchase seeds from him the first year I grew them, 5th this dang internet for allowing me to reach people I would have never meet,6th I am blaming all the people that have never sent me a bubble pak , 7th yes I am going to shoulder some of the blame for ever getting in to this hobby. Junior this how I have come acrossed with 15 or more packets of seeds all knowing I only have room for 2 plants and and plant 4 if I could plant everyone I would .
Good luck in 2004
Gene

1/12/2004 5:44:52 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

lol!

1/12/2004 6:47:15 AM

the big one

Walkerton Ont

orange on thats not as bad as me, but i do have room for 8 - 10 at home and a few at a local nursery that is will likley want to grow again

1/12/2004 8:47:12 AM

Canuck

Atlanta, Georgia

I grew a 222lb. pumpkin in my first year and was hooked!
I especially love sending out bubble packs and receiving so many each year. It's about the only Christmas and birthday present I get and it costs me about 300Euros to send out my seeds.
I consider it an investment as some of the seeds might turn out to be the next hot seeds.

I have tons of seeds now but am also putting in about 60 plants for selling and experimentation purposes but it's still a far cry from using all the seeds I receive.

If we all planted every seed from each of our pumpkins there wouldn't be any room on the planet to grow anything else I'm certain. Pumpkin soup sure is boring in my opinion!

Good thread!
Michel

1/12/2004 9:25:07 AM

Pennsylvania Rock

Ill trade you a 1956 Mickey Mantle for a Bobier 723! Anyone interested?

1/12/2004 10:02:52 AM

Pennsylvania Rock

Seriously...

I used to be a baseball card dealer, I still have over 300,000 baseball cards sitting in the cellar. I have a lot of the oldies, and goodies.. Roberto Clemente rookie card worth upwords of 2700 bucks, I have several early Mantles (not his rookie card though), on through the sixties, seventies and 80's.. All were worth the price of a common baseball card at one time. These unproven players started putting up big numbers (Clemente 3000 hits, HOF, Mantle - 565 ft homerun 536 HR's in all - HOF), As time passed, and they proved themselves as baseball players, they made more money, thier cards became more valuable, What made thier stock so valuable is the collectors for one thing, but most of all, lets not forget the importance of their ability to play the game and the love people had for them.

But... in the same breath, everytime you opened up a pack of bubble gum stained cards, you may have gotten lucky to get one of those cards, while you also got 7 other cards that ended up in a shoe box. When is the last time you got a Mooose Skowron card to show someone and to brag about it's value?

Lets flash to the pumpkin world and I am going to use the same story, although with pumpkin names and numbers.. Exact story, different angle..

1/12/2004 10:14:15 AM

Pennsylvania Rock

Seriously...

I am a Giant pumpkin grower, I still have over 400 different pumpkin seed strains sitting in the cellar. I have a lot of the oldies, and goodies.. Bobier 845 rookie seed worth upwords of 300 bucks, I have several early Checkons (not his first year seeds though), on through 199, 2000, and 2001.. All were worth the price of a common AG pumpkin seed at one time. These unproven seeds started putting up big numbers (Bobier - 723, 845, 1100, 1047, 1037, 1025, 996, 996, 992, 987, 973, 972, 937, etc), As time passed, and they proved themselves as pumpkin seeds, he grew more pumpkins, thier seeds became more valuable, What made thier stock so valuable is the collectors for one thing, but most of all, lets not forget the importance of their ability to grow the big ones and the love people had for them.

But... in the same breath, everytime you opened up your fruits to get those mold stained seeds, you may have gotten lucky to get one of those silver bullet seeds, while you also got 7 other fruits with seeds that ended up in a shoe box. When is the last time you got a Rivard 133 seed to show someone and to brag about it's value?

Bottom line.. If you "hoard", great.. I do... I am always speculating.. But to let those hoard critics out there be straightened out, If a seed goes 3 years in my jar, and doesnt look like it has any potential to reach my soil, I usually move it on. I assembled over 75 bubble packs over the weekend, and in the bubble that says first or second year grower and don;t have many seeds, I will throw half dozen packs of seeds from growers I have recieved into those bubbles, knowing they have a higher percentage of a chance to get planted if I move them around. My group, the PGPGA will get nearly 100 different packs this year of just that same type seeds, to put into bubbles for the yearly distribution.

1/12/2004 10:27:17 AM

cliffrwarren

I'm with Gordon... GO UTES!

At last count I have 144 seeds in collection, but you know
everything that has been said here is true. They just come!
I send out just a few requests each year for a few seeds I
think have promise or have a trait I'm looking for. Then
what usually happens is that particular grower will gladly
send the seeds I want, plus a dozen others from their other
stocks grown that year.... this is fine and this is great.
But it doesn't mean that my having 144 seeds is depriving
anyone.

In fact, I in turn give away many of these seeds locally
to friends who might have an interest. Not many of these
bear fruit, but sometimes they do. This is all about getting
someone new to join the hobby.

One year I grew some seeds that appeared to have great
genetic potential. I offered these to any grower. Then I
discovered something... when I sent these seeds out, these
other growers sent me seeds, seeds that I didn't request
but was gracious to receive anyway. Why not? Maybe that
seed will become hot.

The good news is, there will always be more seeds than
growers!

Good thread, thanks all for being civil.

Regards, Cliff

1/12/2004 11:07:16 AM

Webster, NY

When I ask for a seed, I usually do so because I have very real plans to plant it. Then I see another one, that might be better and I request that one, and so on and so on. And with every seed these nice people usually send me many more then I ask for. I guess my eyes are bigger then my stomach (or my garden) but I have a good time and have spoken with a lot of nice people. I guess there can't be too much wrong with that.

Oh ya, I've also tried to give back to the community a bit by giving away some pretty good seeds to people who can't find what they want. That's kind of fun also.

1/12/2004 11:17:10 AM

PumpkinBrat

Paradise Mountain, New York

"AND THAT'S THE BOTTOM LINE BECAUSE PGPGA ROCK SAID SO"

1/12/2004 12:07:59 PM

Think Big

Commack, NY

Rock well said..........i'll trade you my entire seed collection for a Honus Wagner card :)

Scott

1/12/2004 1:57:53 PM

BenDB

Key West, FL

You're all seed hoarding Jerks.

1/12/2004 2:01:15 PM

pumpkinpal2

C N Y

yes, thanks to all for your civility! i thought for sure that when i saw all the 9-paragraph answers here that there would be some storms to be reckoned with! lol i totally agree with both sides of this discussion, being a seed-hoarder myself as well as a monster pack sender-outer
(of my own seeds), the intention being to have the seeds on-hand as they become "hot".
concerning other growers, they have been supremely gracious in providing me with their yearly caches and also extra ones above and beyond what i have asked for.....if it were up to me i would plant every single one, and carry on what Mother Nature has intended; the survival of at least this species of pumpkin! i can understand a discomfort in hearing about a massive seed collection that will never get all-planted; all we can do is hope that a few of our seeds are in that collection that get lucky, and perhaps become "hot"! 'pal2

1/12/2004 2:10:15 PM

Cowpie

Ontario

I guess this means the only sure way of proving out your seeds is by planting them yourself. You really can't rely on other growers to do that for you no matter how many seeds you hand out. We're all just sitting back and waiting for somebody to go first and plant something. This is unfortunate but true. On the other hand hopefully it does encourage folks to plant at least one of their own instead of grabbing for that "hot" seed. I'm really looking forward to getting that 1000lber. with my own seed one day.

1/12/2004 4:25:03 PM

Hayes, Virginia

HOW ABOUT THE 56 MANTEL CARD!!! I HAVE A SECOND YEAR MANTEL CARD WILL TRADE FOR A WIFE THAT HELPS ME WEED>>.2ND YEAR GROWER HERE I HAVE ABOUT 12 SEEDS AND ROOM TO GROW ABOUT 20 PLANTS.. SO ILL BUBBLE UP TO ANYONE WHO WILL LET ME.I'M SO HOOKED

1/12/2004 4:57:07 PM

Tom B

Indiana

what makes sense to me is that for every plant someone grows, there are about 500 seeds. That means that for every plant someone has grown there are 500 seeds. which is 500 times what someone needs. My self I have grown over 250 plants, so that should mean I have about 125,000 seeds. Which is probably about right including mine and ones from others. most of which are junk and noone even knows about. Thats just how it goes. Maybe someone should take an average and see what average plant production is for seeds, and then we could use that to define hoarder. If your over or below average :-)

Tom Beachy

1/12/2004 5:02:22 PM

Big Kahuna 26

Ontario, Canada.

Mr.D&ME > Get out now while you still can! Once you dip your toes into the soil its too late. 12 x 450 = 5400 seeds by next year. You are into this big time. Email any of these guys in here and they will surely help you out. I have received so many seed packs from everyone it is sometimes hard to imagine. My once meager stock of a few seeds is now over flowing with the many growers, generosity.

Russ L.

1/12/2004 6:03:55 PM

Hayes, Virginia

hey Tom do you have any of those junk 1097.5 seeds laying around IF NOT MAYBE ONE OF THE PARENTS OF THE 1097.5>>lol. I SEE THAT SEED ON LOT#3 ON THE NPGPGA AUCTION ON THE 17TH OH WELL GUESS ILL TAKE MY CHANCE THEN..hey Russ do you need any seeds next year I'll have about 5399 to spare.lol.. Russ its to late got the pumpkin bug..Someone bug Mike for me to let me in the AGGC.HAPPY GROWING TO ALL!!! one thing is for sure there is a lot of great people in this room ..Thanks to all for the help and info. PUMPKIN PEOPLE RULE!!!

1/12/2004 6:46:21 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Hey, thanks Rock!
SEE, I told you it was just like trading baseball cards!!!
Heh heh, hee, hee, bah-humbug :0)

1/12/2004 9:03:46 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

BTW...another shameless Southern FREE SEED post here. E-mail me for an address and I'll load that bubble up!!!
C'mon guys, I never get enough replies when I do this. Only got 5 bubbles from new growers today..let's go, my freezer is too full. C'mon, hurry up..e-mail me and take some of these damn things! Lloyd genetic crosses for ya'!

1/12/2004 9:11:11 PM

Hayes, Virginia

Hey KYLE, I JUST YOU A BUBBLE TODAY THANKS FOR HELPING ME OUT I HAVE PICKED UP FEW MORE SEEDS FROM MY BROTHER. CAN I EMAIL YOU AND ASK SOME ADVICE ABOUT WHICH ONE'S TO CROSS.. THANKS ALOT YOU BEEN A BIG HELP...

1/12/2004 9:19:55 PM

Mbrock

Calif

What I think is being missed here..............is baseball cards aren't being sent free to you. Some kind grower is hoping to help you do better with their insight .....and genetic crosses....and hopes it helps........how you cash in on this kindness is up to the individual.......mb

1/12/2004 10:59:55 PM

Webster, NY

I tend to define horder as someone who gets as many seeds as he can, as often as he can with no thought of ever trading of sharing, whether from his fruit or from someone else. A person who gets seeds and is willing to spread them out and share wouldn't be a horder. Does that make sense?

Dave

1/13/2004 6:03:41 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

The baseball card thing is just an "analogy", not to be taken literally. After all, you can't compare apples to oranges.:0)

1/13/2004 6:54:42 AM

jeff517

Ga.

LOL,,so if I have 3-400 seed from my own fruit,,I'm a horder???

1/13/2004 8:01:41 AM

Webster, NY

Jeff, No, I don't think so. I'm sure like most people if someone asked for a couple of your seeds your would gladly give it, or maybe trade it. My "very naive" thought is that if you then said, "no way, I won't give you any of mine, but can I have some of yours" that might be defined as a horder.

Boy, I hope I don't get in trouble for this.

Dave

1/13/2004 10:51:26 AM

Tiller

Sequim, WA

It's easy to become a seed hoarder, I've done it and you can too. Just follow these simple step by step instructions and you too can have an abundance of AG pumpkin seeds. Start up costs can be less than a dollar, in fact one dollar a week can get you more seeds than you can ever hope to plant. First send a self addressed stamped bubble pack envelope with a brief letter to a giant pumpkin grower requesting seed from one of their pumpkins you are interested in planting. In a few short weeks you will likely have seeds from every pumpkin that grower produced that year, and possibly some from prior years or other growers. Repeat this process once a week from Thanksgiving to St. Patricks day, and join one pumpkin growers club and by mid April you will have more seeds than you can hope to plant for the next ten years. But wait, that's not all. You have to repeat this process next year so you won't miss out on the hottest new crosses.

After 8 years in this hobby I no longer send out requests. They come to me automatically and I have a number of people I trade with every year. Seeds come to me with the requests of other growers, and the club sends some and makes available for sale others. What I do with them is up to me. Most will never get planted, but every year there is an unknown seed in my collection that gets some consideration. It's all part of the game, have fun.

1/13/2004 11:35:02 AM