Message Board - BigPumpkins.com

Spokane, WA

I was just wondering. You know how everyone is always talking about disease and how to overcome it. I mean some folks go to the max. when it comes to disease control. There are some products out there (I know because I went looking) that sell for like over $100 for just an ounce.

Anyway this is not my point. My point is has anyone done or have any experiance with grafting. I've read that you can graft cucurbit plants when they are quite small. I plan to try this on some "less desireable seeds" this winter and see if it really works. The reason for grafting would be to help resist disease.

For example, say you have a pumpkin variety that resists disease extremly well or disease does not even effect it. You would like to keep this great disease resistance without crossing the plant(breeding it to make fruit). Because if you have a very valuable seed stock and you cross it with a jack-o-lantern pumpkin that happens to resists disease. What you will more than likely end up with is a small ugly pumpkin that sorta kinda resists disease. What you are aming for is to keep your terrific genetics in that desireable seed stock and at the same time hopefully resisting disease. I think the only way to do this is to graft the two varietys. The good seed stock goes on the top so that it can grow on and produce fruit and the disease resistant one on the bottom.

I am sorry if I'm not really clear. I'm having a tough time putting my thoughts to words. Any comments or thoughts I would love to hear. I don't even know if right? so please help if you can.

There are some pictures on how to graft cucurbits in the figures on this website. If anyony knows of other websites that would be great too.
Thanks, Adam

1/4/2004 9:43:21 PM

Spokane, WA

sorry here is the web site:
http://www.agnet.org/library/article/eb480.html

1/4/2004 9:44:33 PM

Down Under

Queensland, Australia

Check out my diary.
It is a suprisingly easy process. I have 2 out of 2 so far.
My aim is to graft a nice pumpkin onto a vigourous rootstock to get a big vine early in season.
I wonder how the end results will be portrayed for genetic purposes.
Anyway if anyone wants some grafting clips and wilt resistant gourd seeds I am willing to trade for some good seeds.
Clinton

1/5/2004 1:46:26 AM

Now this is interesting. The 842 Eaton has demonstrated Powdery Mildew resistance for Al Eaton. A couple things come to mind.

The greenhouse producers are grafting to insure a more vigorous rootstock. But how much more vigorous than an AG rootstock does it get? Can conventional cuttings be utilized or would they negate the need to graft?

Are you proposing this idea to insure a conventional taproot? If so, this process *could* help overcome the *supposed* restriction of overwintered cuttings (often called clones here). It has been implied a cutting can never produce to maximum potential because it lacks a full taproot.

Is it possible to use this method on the growing tip of an older plant? The rootstock material would have to be a bit older than the "agnet" paper proposes. I've got my greenhouse chucker-block-full of donors if this is the case.

But then the issue of vascular tube matching would likely be much more critical.

Clinton, What size plants did you try this on? I have to look at your diary.

This could be huge. I hope "madman" Marc Sawtelle sees this thread.

Steve

1/5/2004 6:34:03 AM

Morris, Connecticut

I always thought it would be interesting to graft an additional root system onto a seedling. The thought being that it would completely double the root system of the plant. Thus increasing it's establishment from an early age and overall growth capacity. I think we may cause some serious split problems though. It also may cause some problems with the apical dominence of the plant...

I think it's worth looking into...

Also thought it would be interesting to experiment with grafting seedlings at some of the nodes where secondary rooting occurs. This should tremendously increasing the axillary rooting of the plants and dramatically changing the root architecture.

Adam

1/5/2004 8:18:42 AM

THE BORER

Billerica,Massachusetts

Adam: i have often thought about grafting a secondary root system also, maybe if i have time i'll attempt it this winter?

Glenn

1/5/2004 12:06:01 PM

pumpkinpal2

C N Y

If you graft one thing onto another, how does that help the original plant you might be trying to improve the disease tolerance of? does the original plant take-on new genetics from the plant that is grafted onto it, or does the grafted plant just use the original plant as a host for the time being, like a hitchhiker in a way? if i attach a wooden stake to a metal stake to make it longer and get the job done, okay good. but they will always be the same, they will never cross over and make a new wood/metal hybrid, with characteristics surpassing either of the originals.
i definitely have no experience with the grafting process or
its ups 'n' downs, but this is the first question i have about it anyway.........enlighten.......'pal2

1/5/2004 1:56:52 PM

Morris, Connecticut

Pumpkinpal2 -

Say you graft a known producer (845 Bobier) onto some other atlantic giant seedling that is known for its resistance to root diseases. The resulting plant (in theory) would still produce typical 845 offspring but would have a root system that was resistant to root diseases. This would allow the 845 to produce more closely to it's genetic potential even if grown in a patch with high root disease levels.

In your example the wooded stake would benefit from being grafted onto the metal pole but at the same time, would still be a metal stake. In general, the rootstock exerts very little genetic control on the top portion of the plant (scion).

In greenhouse tomato and cucumber production known cultivars are commonly grafted onto disease resistant seedlings. In this way the grower obtains resistance to root diseases (which is common in greenhouses) and at the same time is able to continue to sell the varieties that consumers demand.

The best case senario in the pumpkin world would be to locate a plant that is resistant to foliar disease (like the 842 Eaton) and graft it onto a rootstock that also has some disease resistance.....

-Adam

1/5/2004 3:14:26 PM

Adam's got it. Assuming we know of an AG that *is* restistant to root diseases. Not sure if one is known to exist. But if anyone does, it will be this crowd.....

I also think that creating a "tap-rooted" cutting would be advantageous. Cuttings or "clones" are suspected to be poor producers (of anything other than pollen) due to poorly structured stump areas.

Steve

1/5/2004 5:01:46 PM

Oh yeah....The roots do not change the genetics of the vines nor resulting flowers.

1/5/2004 5:02:24 PM

pumpkinpal2

C N Y

hmmmm...thanks for the enlightenment!

1/5/2004 5:25:36 PM

pumpkinpal2

C N Y

not "1", but "2" Adam-12s!

1/5/2004 5:27:05 PM

Big Kahuna 26

Ontario, Canada.

Would this work for choosing a root or vine stock that has shorter internodal distance between the secondary vines as well. Can more tap roots be developed from such a union. In effect a bushier compact plant.

1/5/2004 5:52:18 PM

Spokane, WA

thanks guys, you know a TON!!!

1/5/2004 6:04:56 PM

CEIS

In the shade - PDX, OR

Interesting thread indeed!

Steve - do you have any spare time to conduct a clone growth tip graft to an established seedling root stock?

I'm still waiting to hear what the Madman has to say about this topic.

Thanks,
Ceis

1/5/2004 6:41:08 PM

Spokane, WA

As one thought leads to another I have yet another one.

If someone was trying to grow a super long gourd or a world record cucumber or something in this family besides pumpkins, wouldn't a vigerous root system be very beneficial? And we all know AG pumpkins have very vigerous roots. So by grafting the roots of an AG to a different variety (say a cucumber) wouldn't this result in aextra large plant and fruit...? Or am I wrong? Would it even make a difference in the plant size and fruit?

1/5/2004 6:51:50 PM

In school nobody ruined as many grafts as me. I was awful! Then in another life I got good at striking soft & hardwood cuttings where others had great difficulty. Go figure. But all that was over 20 years ago.

Now with "BigWheels" Adam Wheeler moving back to CT, & me sitting on 801, 845, 736, & 790 cuttings.....If I could coerce him into helping.....maybe? LOL

I'd make the time if I thought it would yield positive results.

You settling down soon Adam?

1/5/2004 6:53:00 PM

Morris, Connecticut

Here we go... I love this stuff...

Kahuna2 - The overall size of a plant can be altered using different rootstocks. This is what is done in many apple orchards now. By using a dwarfing rootstock the orchardists are able to produce smaller plants that are easy to manage. I wonder what affect a dwarfing pumpkin rootstock (if one did exist) would have on the potential for fruit size. Usually dwarfing rootstocks only alter the vegetative growth of a plant, not the fruit production.

Adam - grafting onto a vigorous root system will generally increase the size of a plant but usually does not alter fruit production. Also succesful graft combinations usually have to be rather closely related (within the same genus).

1/5/2004 8:28:57 PM

Morris, Connecticut

Steve:

Fortunately my Master's is in plant propagation and I've done tons of grafting work. Heck my thesis even deals with grafting sugar maples.

I'd love to take a crack at grafting some plants when I get down to Connecticut in a few weeks.

I've got spot in my test patch to grow out one or two if it looks promising....

Adam

1/5/2004 8:34:48 PM