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Mill Creek West by god Virginia

hi all i got a question?i start my plants in hills,well dug and good soil,my question is this what do you all think about putting black plastic over the rest of patch to keep weeds down?i know punkins have feeder roots on vines and these feed plants and punkins so there for ide add manure and other organic material on top of plastic so punkin roots have place to feed and attach,what is youre alls opinion about this idea?i have had some sucess with smaller punkins what do you think will giant ones grow on top of plastic?thanks all merry christmas,yours in punkins burrhead

12/23/2003 4:12:48 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

#1. Too hot for the plant.
#2. Tap roots need to be able to go *underground* to feed and anchor the vines down.
#3. You have the issue of keeping the soil watered.

12/23/2003 7:14:26 AM

Nova Scotia

burrhead i suggest that you put the plastic down and as the plant grows pull plastic back accordingly. myself i plan to do this but with a white non see through stuff because of heat issues.

12/23/2003 8:23:38 AM

Key West, FL

I believe Jack La Rue tried this once. He grew a plant on top on black plastic, I think the fruit ended up a pretty good size! The results were pretty surprising I remember.

12/23/2003 12:58:47 PM

Montoursville, PA

#1 How can oxygen get into the soil through plastic?
#2 How can gasses get out of the soil through plastic?
#3 How will nutrients be added through plastic?
#4 To hot for many elements of your biological patch. In fact solarizing with the use of plastic is one way to kill everything living within the patch.
#5 Water will run to the low spots and flood the low areas having no chance to disperse evenly through out the patch.
#6 The flooded areas will be even further oxygen deprived.
#7 Reflected heat may scorch the under sides of your leaves. Of course you could efortlessly get the aphids that way.
#8 The plastic serves as and is called a mulch but how can it be as it is not bio-degradeable?
#9 The plastic may be acceptable around a garden as a windbreak but even then it looks out of place.
#10 Any good biodegradeable mulch will have none of these concerns and help build you a more healthy soil.

12/23/2003 1:31:10 PM

Taber, Alberta

Will black planter's paper work better? The air and water can get through this. Just wondering.
Alan

12/23/2003 2:23:12 PM

Applegate, Oregon

Ben is right, I think that Jack grew one close to 700 lbs on black plastic. The tap roots all curled in the areas where water pools existed on the plastic. Also, he found that the heat was no issue. A local guy had his entire plants grow out onto a black top. The plants looked great and had no issues with very high heat. There is an interesting theory about the plastic that Jack is trying to research, and I look forward to his results.

I say give it a go.

12/23/2003 4:38:20 PM

Montoursville, PA

Geese there is a lot of hard work involved bringing in any finished AG. I just hate to see anyone hang a 50% handicap or greater on the growing proceedure while at the same time preventing or retarding healthy soil development that could lead to growing one of the top 30% fruit weights in the world.

There certainly is nothing wrong with playing with hydrophonics however I doubt very much any top weight giant fruit have a place within that growing practice. Punky, lifeless, shipping tomatoes for profit alone however is quite another story. That they do successfully using forms of hydrophonics. Somehow along the way they lost the real fruit. We can all say it is still red.

Some of the above criticisms may also be true of the AG's since this hobby seeks heavy and absolutely nothing else....no matter in what medium they are grown.

12/23/2003 5:37:21 PM

Brillion Wisconsin

burrhead, I use black plastic in the early spring only. I cover a area around 100 sqft. to raise soil temperatures for my soon to be transplanted seedling. I try to cover the area a few weeks before I start my seeds indoors. I remove all the plastic after the plant starts to vine out.
I'm not sure what size pumpkin patch you have but if its 1,000 sqft or less your better off by hand weeding. I tried all kinds of ways to prevent weeds from growing and I still find the best way is to just pull them out as they grow. If your patch is really big and hand weeding is not an option you might want to consider a controlled herbacide application. I have used herbicides in the past to get rid off problem grasses in my garden and seen no affects on pumpkin plant growth. good luck in 2004. Dean o

12/23/2003 7:10:15 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

What product did you use, Dean?

12/23/2003 7:24:12 PM

i don't think it makes sense to try to grow tap roots over the top of the plastic. how this do you plan on making the soil over the top? roots go really deep naturally, and the plastic will limit that. also the plastic will hold too much water when it rains (no drainage) and the soil on top will dry out when it doesn't rain. not a stable environment at all. besides, weeding is a good way to get a tan! :-)

12/23/2003 10:45:52 PM

[email protected]

If a weedless & desirable root zone soil is brought in to go over the plastic in depths beneficial to the pumpkin, then placing it on top of the existing soil would also hold down the weeds.

Steve

12/23/2003 11:25:46 PM

Mill Creek West by god Virginia

wow thanksall for advice and suggestions,i was just curious because i am handicapped physically,ihave lou gehrigs disease so it limits my ability to walk and pullweeds,i love trying though so i amjust trying to figure out if the plastic will help,my sister tried it in seattle washington and shegrew one over500lbs with some seeds i had sent her in 1996,i just dont know what all she did.anyway thanks again all and any ideas and suggestions i will greatly appreciate,burrheadoh p.s. southern i have chosen three of youre seeds you sent me to be on my frontline punkin patch!

12/24/2003 1:26:02 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

cool...good luck burr

12/24/2003 2:15:17 AM

Indiana

wet newspaper put down can also help block weeds and it will break down also.
Steve

12/24/2003 6:56:52 AM

[email protected]

That's different then. I know what burrhead is going through.

There are breathable weed block fabrics that won't interefere with soil biology or gas/water transfer like plastic would. You might use them just in the rows since once AG's get established, their leaves shade weeds out to some extent. These fabrics could be spread all over the patch & cut ahead of the advancing vines. This might actually favor the secondary roots since compaction below these fabrics is reduced in some soils.

Boards can be placed directly on top of the fabric. Should help anchor the fabric while minimizing compaction.

You might also want to consider a light Basamid treatment. At low rates, Basamid does a good job at controlling weeds & disipates freely with no soil residue. Timing is funny & the soil will be dead just after treatment, but the fix is not difficult. This is an extreme move & requires careful consideration. Taking one year off is advised.

Another option: Scythe herbicide is a non-selective contact herbicide. It works like Roundup but doesn't translocated. So large established perennial weeds probably wouldn't die. But if things got this out of hand....LOL

Point being, Scythe is a "Reduced Risk" herbicide. So it's less dangerous to you & the environment. Plus if you accidentally hit a pumpkin, only the leaf hit will die. No translocation occurs. So the rest of the plant & all nearby roots are safe.

Steve

12/24/2003 10:31:57 AM

C N Y

THANK YOU TREMOR! i was going to bring up the thought of using Weed-Block (TM)in about 50-foot lengths side-by-side
and stretched tight using weed-fabric pegs at the four corners of each...i did this with my tomato patch, and i see no reason why it wouldn't work with pumpkins.
biggest tomatoes i've grown yet (just, like, 2-3/4 lbs., but hey!) and there are definitely NO weeds coming up and the soil would HAVE TO be getting enough water, air, etc. for them to grow....for the bigguns, though, i would like to see the use of garden hose, with 1/16-inch or larger holes drilled into them at every 1-foot mark, to supplementally water with whatever's on the menu for that day, and the vine-burying is an option, but the roots MAY need a little help by making a hole wherever the vine is to be mounded with soil anyway (anyweigh). i'll be doing this
in '04, to make up for NOT trying it in '03, even after being revved-up about the possibilities i heard in Jack
LaRue's description of it...although it WAS black PLASTIC
that he used....TRY IT!!!! and let us know how it go. 'pal2

12/24/2003 1:08:09 PM