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Appalachian Mtns.

Any thoughts on this subject?
Any experience out there in utilizing high concentration hydrogen peroxides, calcium peroxide or magnesium peroxide?

3/11/2003 8:20:40 AM

Nova Scotia

myself i'm trying liquid irionite which has .035% peroxide. and i'm having tremendous results here in the hot weather of the bahamas(planted 40 day's ago with 1 major set back and at 3'now). of course i'm using a few other products as well.

3/11/2003 8:29:34 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

.035% or 35% peroxide?

3/11/2003 8:42:43 AM

Nova Scotia

.035% but you can get 3% from your local drug store. but beside using this concentration for starting seeds i do not know what effect this would have on your plant . could be good or could be bad?

3/11/2003 9:52:55 AM

Montoursville, PA

I have used Ironite and several other similar products for many years. The present rate I use is eight pounds per 1000 sq.ft. both fall and spring applications. Ironite sponsors our state association weigh off. That is the major reason I use Ironite.

3/11/2003 12:55:44 PM

Nova Scotia

now i know that the liquid form contains peroxcide. but does the granular?

3/11/2003 1:43:57 PM

Montoursville, PA

Someone else will have to respond. I am iced in and snowed out of my garden shed. I need the bag to lean on for your answers.

3/11/2003 1:59:07 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

I had a chemical engineer from 3M, recommend using Calcium Peroxide in the soil. He worked for an enviromental clean up company. He said they used it to increase the take up of metals in the soil. He wasn't sure what it would do for Pumpkins, although he knew it increases photosynthesis, and nutrient take up. He recommended Oxy-Cal. There are some people here who have used it.

3/11/2003 5:00:43 PM

[email protected]

Kyle,
My research shows that Calcium Peroxide from FMC lasts about 100 hours in the soil. The magnesium product (ORC)lasted much longer. Can't say how long because the plug got pulled on the test after 20 days I think it was.

These are largely used to remediate contaminated soils of petroleum based prodcuts.

Ringer natural lawn fertilizers is selling a calcium based oxygenated fertilizer. But I don't find 4 days to be very impressive unless we find a very cheap source that can be injected into the sprinkler system.

Magnesium Peroxide & Hydroxide (Milk of Magnesia) are both found in health food stores at absolutely rediculous prices. Even one broadcast soil teatment I found to be impossibly cost prohibitive.

So too are those "alternative gardening products". $19.95 for 500 grams is also absurd.

I may need to call on my friend Arden at FMC.

Steve

3/11/2003 5:17:33 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

.035% is too low..need more oxygenation than that.
Steve, e-mail me when you hear something from FMC. I may have to resort getting 35% from the beauty shop and wetting along the vines with it. But does that get deep enough and if so is the formulation broken down by then?
Thoughts?

3/11/2003 5:55:07 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

If you add 35% HP to watering barrels, how long is it active?
I would think it would break down quickly and be too diluted to do any good.
Thoughts?

3/11/2003 5:57:34 PM

Jackson Twp, Ohio

What i know about hydrogen peroxide is that it is used i think in two separate probably more Ag. chemicals one is called oxidate and the other is zerotol. I am rather interested about using hydrogen peroxide because it offers a very safe method to control a large number of fungi and bacteria in a pumpkin patch, it also decomposes to water. as for cost it might be a bit expensive. And too much of it will have a rather detrimental effect on a plant, it will basically oxidize a plant as well as bacteria. which means the label must be followed. Most dilutions i have seen are about 1 part H202 to 300 parts water for 30 % Hyd. Peroxide.

Also as far as soil denching goes, with our high organic matter contents it might end up not being very effective.

Hope this gives you all something to think about.

Nick Hamilton

3/11/2003 6:15:54 PM

Chico, Ca

to help get oxygen in the soil I use Lots (10-12 cu.ft.) per 500 sqft of perlite. It breaks up your soil so it can breath naturally with no chems. no burn. no chemical engineering degree needed. My father who designed satellites for a living tought me to keep it simple. It's cheap and it works!

3/11/2003 6:36:33 PM

[email protected]

C&R Kolb is on to something. Oxygen is free if we keep soils open. Calcined Clay particles like Turface or Pro's Choice "Soil Master" work great by keeping the pore spaces open.

Kyle, Magnesium Peroxide is also used as a fabric bleaching agent in the textile industry. That may be the best source for us with respect to packaging & cost.

Check this site out when you have a minute:

http://www.regenesis.com/

Seems these guys may have what we're after. I didn't have time today & won't tonight.

Steve

3/11/2003 7:21:41 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Steve,
Sent them (regenesis) an e-mail last night. Awaiting word back...

3/11/2003 7:54:54 PM

Caceres, mid west of Spain

What is the normal use of calcined clay and where to find it?

Don

3/12/2003 12:53:06 AM

syracuse, ny

man, lotta good info from that post, kyle!
i've been talkin' hydrogen peroxide just to start 'em with...very small-scale...perhaps the whole race can be run on it!
good luck with this! 'pal

3/12/2003 1:05:20 AM

porterville,california usa

Don Q posted an addy to a site about this very thing a few days back. i looked it up and it`s full of info. just about everything there is to know about h.p.s` effects on stuff. i can`t find the addy any more. Don, do you still have it?

3/12/2003 2:40:33 AM

porterville,california usa

hydrogen peroxide is H2 O2. two hydrogen atoms and two oxygen atoms. water is H2O. two hydrogen atoms and one oxygen atom. when you mix H2O2 with H2O a reaction occurs between the two molecules causing the H2O2 to release one of its oxygen atoms, resulting in an increase of oxygen in the water. and more water. the reason a plant will die from too much watering is the water becomes stagnated and most of the O2 has been used up. in laymans terms the plant can`t breathe. better than drying out a water-logged plant is to add hydrogen peroxide to the water. oxygen will get to the roots faster and hang around longer because it`s being replenshed from the molecular break-down. hydrophonic farmers see it as a necessity to increase growth and maintain vigor. they get what is known as food grade hydrogen peroxide, which is a very high per-cent solution. it`s available to them as well as the public at very reasonable prices. usually found at nurseries, farm supply houses and agriculture chemical dealerships, even your local beauty shop can probably get it for you.

3/12/2003 3:22:14 AM

[email protected]

Carlos,

Calcined Caly here in the United States comes from Mississippi. Two "heavy hitters" handle nearly all of it. The material looks like cat litter & is made in a similar way. But it's heated at higher temperature for a longer period of time. This takes it from dry to vitrified (not as durable) & then to calcined. Calcined it is though will last at least 100 years in soil. It requires large quantities of natural gas to create this much heat. Therefore it WILL cost more money this year due to a steep rise in energy costs.
It is sometimes shipped loose in articulated trailer style dump trucks holding about 18 US tons.
More often, it is packed in 50 lb paper bags that sell for about $8.00-$12.00 depending on quantity & distance from point of origin. 22 tons (880 bags) fits on a 53' semi.

Profile Products makes Turface. This was the king until a couple years ago. They're taking it on the chin a little lately because their prodcut is a little too uniform in size for some soils.

http://www.profileproducts.com/lawn/index.html
___________________________________________________

OilDri Corp. owns & operates Pro's Choice who makes Soilmaster.

http://www.proschoice1.com/turbase.htm

Soilmaster has recently found favor due to a constant effort to improve sizing, Somewhat differing shape & size helps to prevent compaction.
______________

continued

3/12/2003 5:47:28 AM

[email protected]

Diamond Dry was coming up for a while but the guys who use the stuff didn't seem to like it. I have no experience with it & can't comment either way.

Most of this material is used to manage moisture & compaction in the clay infields on American Baseball infields & pitching mounds. Conventional clay stays wet too long after a rain & gets too dry in the summer months. This issue is so real that one of my customers (very famous pro team) has actually installed sub terranian irrigation beneath the clay infield to help manage moisture during a game where hand watering the clay would make it too messy to play on. Obviously, calcined clay is used on all Pro fields.

Now we find that many turf manager & arborists are using calcined clay as a soil amendment that really out lives peat moss or manure. pH is neutrel. CEC is good. But no nutrient, so not intended to replace organic amendments. But much better at helping us manage excess moisture.
Hyroponic gardeners have been using calcined clay (among other things) as a direct growing medium where it really performs well.

Both Profile & OilDri are known to run into seasonal production challenges from time to time. That messes up the supply at critical times of peak demand. So we maintain a relationship with both companies. About one third of our customers have no preference either way.

Steve

3/12/2003 5:47:43 AM

[email protected]

When deep tilled into heavy soils, the rate can get up to 1 Lb. per square foot. I've used a little less than that with Peat Moss in my front yard to correct a heavy clay flower bed for the Mrs. Prior to doing this, Impatiens & Begonias wouldn't grow more than 6 inches tall.
Now they approach 24 inch mounds if I hit them with a little 20-20-20 soluble a few times. Better still has been our 14-14-14 100% ciated granular with micros.
The darn things don't stop growing all year & actually get too big.

I don't really need it in my sandyish pumpkin patch, though it wouldn't hurt.

Steve

3/12/2003 5:52:55 AM

Caceres, mid west of Spain

Hey Steve, nice information, I take notice.
Booth, sure I have it and here it is:
http://www.hydromall.com/happy_grower19.html

Don

3/12/2003 9:37:34 AM

porterville,california usa

thanks Don. this is a very good source of info on h.p..

3/13/2003 2:39:51 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

I heard back from the ORC (calcium peroxide, agricultural grade) people.
$110 per pound, minimum order 6 lbs.

3/13/2003 3:44:38 PM

Appalachian Mtns.

Steve,
Have you heard back from FMC, on the calcium/ magnesium peroxide?

3/13/2003 6:15:01 PM

Chico, Ca

I'll stick with perlite, Cheap in big bags,easy to find,lightweight(all them trapped o2 molecules inbetween).It doesn't come with a msds or take a dergee to understand what it does or how it works.My soil is very loose and we have a decent amount of clay.We tried it our first year growing Ag in 100 f heat, Lots of water with no drainage problems at all. But damn if we could only manage 758.5 lbs.
You need calcined clay products around baseball daimonds because you walk all over the place hence the compaction problem. I do not tread heavily in my patch. do you?

Robert

3/14/2003 10:45:36 PM