From

Location

Message

Date Posted

Carrollton, Ga.

Hello,
Would it be better to add my manure and leaves to the patch now or pile them up and compost them and add it to the patch next spring? Would love to heard everyone's thoughts on this.
Doug
1st Cor. 3:17

11/17/2007 8:42:49 AM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

The following is all soil test-dependent:

I would add leaves and manure now to allow it to over-winter, tilling in the spring, especially if your manure is fairly fresh.

I use the leaves from the year before. That way, they're half -composted. I quit applying manure as OM due to the fact it contains various weed seeds which can be hard to control when they germinate. Next season, I'm going to try alfalfa pellets as a nitrogen/OM source. It also contains growth hormones.

If you can get your leaves half way composted by next spring, apply them then. Better yet, if you can combine the manure and leaves now to speed the composting process, apply both next spring. If you use it at all, also add molasses to the composting pile.

11/17/2007 9:27:56 AM

Woodinville, WA, PNW zn 7b

I'm a permaculture gardener. The concept is whenever possible let nature do the work for you. If I had the manure and the leaves, I'd first lay down the manure, then cover it with a deep layer of leaves.

I would not till it in. Instead I'd let "the worms crawl in, the worms crawl out" and let them turn it in for you.

In spring you will have a crust of leaves, underneath you will have a rich layer of compost which the critters will have drawn down into the soil. Your leaf layer will retain moisture and prevent the weeds from germinating.

Do not till all this mess in. Yes, you will get a boost in nutrients from the tilling, but you will also destroy the matrix of worm holes that drain the soil, and bring a million weed seeds to the surface creating a lot of work for you.

My two cents.
GreenElephant

11/17/2007 10:33:17 AM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I've done it both ways. But all in all, the best way would be to put them in a pile until spring. First a dry layer of leaves on the bottom to catch any nutrients that would leach out. Then mix your leaves and manure and put them in a pile to next spring. Add some water to the pile as your making it so it about wet as a sponge. You don't want the pile dry nor soaking wet.

11/17/2007 11:44:52 AM

Puyallup, WA

Hey gpdude....Be forwarned about adding alfalfa pellets.
I did that one year.....never again! I had every rabbit within two miles digging under the edges of my hoophouses to get those pellets...trampling the plants in order to do so.

11/18/2007 1:32:54 AM

Doug, depending on how much manure and leaves you have, you could add half the material now, turn it in and let it work in the soil over winter in your climate. Drench with molasses and a bio-product to speed the breakdown.

The rest can be composted by spring using accepted methods. I know you start early to beat the heat so make sure that the compost is "finished". Lots of great info available on reducing composting times, most involve frequent turning, keeping the piles moisture levels constant, and feeding the bacteria. Do an spring test on the soil and the compost, then make a decision based on those numbers as to how much compost to add b4 planting.

I'll forwarn you that a couple of WI growers tried that "piling on" that GE mentioned last year, they both created problems in the patch and lost fruit/plants early in the season. Nothing like a mess of manure held in a hot state under a layer of fungal rich leaf mass to create a perfect medium for the nasties to grow. In order for things to break down and work you need oxygen and good bacteria levels, both are in place when mixed with your existing soil or in a frequently turned pile.

The most successful growers that I am familiar with that apply the "no till" technique to growing AG's are the Larues and they use composted products when adding to the patch.

11/18/2007 5:22:33 AM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Stan,

The alfalfa pellets are going to be tilled in, the patch fenced in, and mothballs will surround the enclosure. I've had my share of experiences with the critters.

Over time, those pellets will dissolve. I simply want to use them for the pre-pumpkin set nitrogen and hormones.

Thanks for the heads-up.

11/18/2007 6:56:00 AM

Joe, make sure you check the salt levels b4 buying it's been mentioned b4 but folks tend to forget. You can order salt free pellets I have done that in the past couple years.

11/18/2007 9:19:43 AM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Thanks Dan. Soil test came back low in salts. However, I will order the salt-free pellets as you suggest.

11/18/2007 9:32:52 AM

Georgia

Doug I add compost and manure down. Also I lay hay and other organics down in the fall. I spray with molasses and other things which help break it down. Then I add more aged manure in the spring and till it in. It all decomposes just fine for me and my soils crawling with worms. Thats just what I do.

11/19/2007 9:44:31 AM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Jason, how much hay do you put down per 1000 sq ft? I was going to put some down, but wasn't sure about whether or not it would tie up too much N.

Its worked fine for you in the past?

11/19/2007 10:12:27 AM

Georgia

Jordon its worked fine for me for years. Im not sure how much I use per square feet Id have to actually measure. I basically just spread it out evenly over the whole patch in the fall and it decomposes just fine. I also spray it with molasses though and keep it moist. People always say youll have a lot of weeds but I never do. I also reapply it in the spring all around my plants and never have had a problem with disease. It keeps the weeds down and keeps the soil evenly moist.

11/19/2007 10:29:12 AM

Windsor, Ontario, Canada

Ok, thanks. I have 10 bales I was going to consider using for mulch next year. Perhaps I will now.

11/19/2007 12:00:06 PM

Georgia

Yeah Jordon personally I love using hay as a mulch and as a additive in the fall. We dont have many maple leaves around here so I started using hay in the fall to add some more organics. Last year was the first time I used it on Atlantic Giants but it was my first year growing them. But Ive always used it in my gardens and other pumpkins. My entire Tomato and pepper garden as well as pumpkins was covered with hay as mulch and I never had to weed once last year. When I bury vines I just rake the hay away and continue to bury. It works for me but some folks dont like to use it.

11/19/2007 1:08:22 PM

Montoursville, PA

Way to go Jason. You are ahead of a lot of us. Your more or less permanent mulch is a win win win situation. You keep doing this and you will see your soil improve much to your pleasure.

11/24/2007 2:26:23 PM