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Portola Valley California

As I was thinking about the huge gains in weight that occured this year, including my own perosn best being smashed by 302 pounds, I have had cause to wonder. Sure the weather has been great, growing techniques are much improved, genetics are always getting better... But, could it be that something else is going on? Is it possible that using mycorrhiza to stave off soil disease each year is having a cummulitive affect on our soil? I grow every other year, which enables me to stay married. In the past this has been an advantage because my soil rests. Fusariuma and Pithium begin to dissipate. But now am I now always going to be playing catch up with the other growers who are raising their total soil Mycorrhiza count by innoculating their soil at the root balls each and every year. Maybe we should keep track of our Mycorrhize soil count along with our soil reports. What do you guys think?

10/19/2007 3:24:43 PM

Salem, OR

I agree and would like to know how to test for mycorrhize numbers. I stuck me neck out and theorized in a posting that the use of myccorrhize is the single greatest factor contributing to phenomenal weight gains throughout the world in 2007 (it was cold in Oregon and still the record was smashed, for example, so it wasn't just the warm weather). You're the first other person I've heard mention m. as a leading cause of weight gains (although I'm sure many others have been talking about it and I just missed it). I'm not sure about this "cumulative affect" idea, though. It makes sense, but I know that I haven't used all that much m. and I still saw a PB by 350 pounds last year, and would have had a new PB by around 200# this year if my 998.6 hadn't split. Maybe it's just the use of endo-miccorhizal fungi period that makes the difference. Or maybe the real difference is something else that we're not thinking of (or a combination). I know that I'll be using LOTS of miccorhize next year, though!

10/19/2007 5:51:47 PM

Rhode Island

with out a doubt we in ri are convinced that adding mycorrhiza to bases, main and side vine trenches has helped more that we even realize.well worth the money we hadf to lay out.

the club is in the process of going one step further and will research and test this fall for microbial activity in the soil. being tested on the west coast as we speak.soil samples were sent from the wallace and jutras patches.

this test may be the final piece to the puzzle of creating the maximum soil condition

pap

10/19/2007 7:24:21 PM

Dummer Twp - Ontario

I ran out of it as I couldn't find my second bag of it and the lenght of vine that grew without it until my re supply came in was not advanced as with it and the one plant I didn't use it on went light with the other two going 20% and 18% heavy. I bought mine from Joel Holland

Kirk

10/19/2007 7:44:59 PM

Santa Cruz, CA

Would it help to add some mycrorrhiza with the Fall patch amendments?

10/19/2007 8:59:46 PM

New Bremen, Ohio

I tried something different this year this my soilsoup compost tea. When drenching I applied Joel's mycorrhiza with a sugar based mixture in the soilsoup when I just started to see the compost tea foam. I have no idea what the mycorrhiza rate was in the soilsoup when I was done, but my soilsoup foamed a huge amount. I believe this is may be a valid method of drenching mycorrhiza in a active state, out of a granular or powder.

10/19/2007 9:05:06 PM

Roblin, Manitoba

I've been doing some research online about this and it seems worth it considering the time and energy put into growing. We may as well try to get the best results we can. And as a newbie this will most likely be one addition in the bag of tricks I will try next season as I really want to give this a good go. I have one question though, Is there a specific species of mycorrihzal fungi to add to pumpkin plants? or is it best to get a blend of a variety of species?

Scott

10/19/2007 10:27:23 PM

southwest MO

Devils advocate here... Ive seen information that says myco fungi dont colinize well with availible P levels over 100 ppm (200lb acre). If you have heavily ammend your patch your levels can easily be 5 to 10 times these levels. Are pumpkins the exception?? I know the proof is in the pudding as all the big growers are on the train, but its still nagging me. Just throwing it out there.

10/19/2007 11:46:56 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Joel will be very busy during the upcoming season.

10/20/2007 1:28:29 AM

Saegertown Pa.

I have used it the past three to four years, before this year I used some that you mixed with water and I would use it when I started my plants then again when the plants were done growing and I would drench it in. This year I got the stuff from Joel with the plan of putting it down when I covered my vines like some of the other growers do, but I never got aroung to doing it. The only time I used it was when I started my seedlings and I put it in the pots. I have got soil disease when I used it and when I didn't use. I'm not saying using it doesn't help, because none of us know that for sure. But I had my best year and I only used it when I started my seedlings, maybe thats all I needed. I will still use it along with the other stuff I use like most of us do and have bin doing and hope it helps, but I'm not convinced it's the reason for all the big pumpkins this year. I think the over all high weights we had this year was weather related.

10/20/2007 7:25:58 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Christine, adding endo fungi in the fall will not help. They need to actively live and grow in and around living roots. If your soil freezes they will too and surely die. This time of year try concentrating on building your base of bacteria in the soil. Fresh grass clippings and leaves are the best sources of these. Microbial tees brewed from these two items and fed with natural unrefinned sugars work best to quickly supply them in large quantities.

http://www.plantmanagementnetwork.org/pub/cm/review/2004/rhizobacteria/

I agree with Pap about the microbes. This is the next big thing. Get out in front of the curve. last week I provided a link about Plant growth promoting rhizobacteria (PGPR. This what pap is talking about(PGPR). If you do only one thing this off season study the soil food web & learn about how to fotser and build this collective community.
I suspect this is also a reason behind the incredible success story this year.

These guys are tremendous growers and there patches are dialed right in, perfectly to promote all the beneficial factors with have talked about for the last several years.

Were is Dwaine(Doc Gipe)now. He should be considered one of the modern prophets of this web site. He battled many a grower about these issues. We slowly started to come around to his thinking. Weigths will increase as we become more aware of the populations within the soil.

10/20/2007 10:01:28 AM

Ontario, Canada.

A skeptical approach will lead to uncertain answers as the article indicates. The addition of PGPR has not yet been determined to be highly successful in field trials. However the research has indicated no harmful effects. The next big thing is gaining acceptance with each passing year. My view is, in our intensive gardening practices we are seeing the results of explosive microbial growth and this combined with fungi applications is helping to keep fruits together that in years pass would have split. The science is there. On larger scales this may never be feasible but for the average pumpkin schmo like you and me it works.

10/20/2007 10:13:13 AM

Ontario, Canada.

PAP put out a message board in late July or early August that dealt with soil reinoculation of Fungi. I wonder how many growers followed his advice. I did and was satisfied with the end results. It would be interesting to find out from those growers who reinoculated what their experience was.

10/20/2007 10:32:49 AM

[email protected]

Russ, I also followed Paps advice, Did it help me, I went from 598 Official weight to 1011, so I would say the benifits are tremendous. I had weight gains on cooler days that I never seen before. Also weight gain until the day I cut the fruit. But you need to this every year, as Russ said, where the ground freezes, the Fungi will all die.

10/20/2007 8:05:05 PM

Rhode Island

eddy z

i also sprinkle a little on myself after taking a morning shower lol

pap

10/20/2007 8:53:39 PM

southwest MO

Just a pinch between the check and gum!! lol

10/20/2007 10:35:48 PM

[email protected]

Pap, now that was funny, took me a couple minutes to wipe the beer off the screen, I laughed so hard

10/20/2007 11:40:08 PM

Minnesota

I sprinkle it on my cereal,,my wife and I gargle with it.

10/21/2007 12:00:17 AM

Ontario, Canada.

ya know Pap that is one little private moment ya could have kept to yourself!

Eddy, I got an almost 400 pound boost from my reinoculation. The plant kept on going and going.

10/22/2007 1:48:16 PM

Sequim, WA

I don't think the fungi all die when you put a cover crop in. Especially a legume like vetch, clover, or winter peas. I don't know that there are any species that are particular to pumpkins. It can't hurt to try to keep it alive all year.

10/30/2007 10:01:52 PM