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Rhode Island

CALLING ALL PAST ,PRESENT AND FUTURE GIANT PUMPKIN GROWING CHAMPIONS
I KNOW THAT EVERY HEAVY HITTER ( I DEFINE HEAVY HITTER AS A GROWER WHO HAS HAD SUCCESS GROWING LARGE PUMPKINS OVER A PERIOD OF YEARS ) READS A LOT OF THESE POSTS BUT MANY SELDOM, IF EVER, POST A REPLY.
I WOULD LIKE TO CHALLENGE THESE GOOD FOLKS TO COME FORWARD AND POST ANY REPLIES TO QUESTIONS ADDRESSED ON THIS POST ,TO THEM.
YOUR INFLUENCE AND WISDOM IS SADLY MISSING AND THE MAJORITY OF GROWERS WHO POST HERE WOULD BE IN FOR A REAL EYE OPENER
SHOULD YOU CHOOSE TO HELP THEM.
THANKS
DICK "PAP"WALLACE

8/24/2007 10:09:40 PM

Rhode Island

my question is for joe pukos, dave stelts and jerry rose.three of the top growers in the world today
is it
seed-soil-sun-experience ?
soil-sun-seed-experience ?
sun-soil-seed-experience ?
seed-experience-soil-sun ?
or is it all four and one can not do without the other?
thanks guys
pap

8/24/2007 10:31:47 PM

Leamington, Ont.

My question is for Jack LaRue, what do you look for in a seed? Is it certain genetics/traits, proven or just go on a hunch?

Thanks
Sav

8/24/2007 11:47:22 PM

Austria

My question is for you pap!
I think many people are a member of the sngpg. Do you know some people of the sngpg, who had grown a 1000+?
And my second question for you pap:
Why is the 1068 Wallace much better than the other seeds, has he so much potential?

Lg Schiedi

8/25/2007 12:40:07 AM

Paradise Mountain, New York

My question is for the Wallaces as well as Joe Pukos, Jerry Rose and Quinn Werner and any other heavy hitter how might feel one thing might work better then others. Question: Do you feel watering your plants in the morning out weighs watering your plants in the evening? Or you feel watering in the evening works better then watering in the morning?

8/25/2007 12:40:42 AM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Another question for the same above heavy hitters. Everytime you water your plants. Lets say from the first of August until the weigh-offs, do you use very low amounts of soluble fertilizers everytime you water your plants or do you only use soluble fertilizers once a week?

8/25/2007 12:51:53 AM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

And when do you start applying high amounts of K for the final push?

8/25/2007 6:33:57 AM

Leicester, NY

Pap,
I put them in this order, soil-experience-sun-seed, but they are all extremely important and if you remove one from the bunch, most likely, one’s not going to grow a decent sized pumpkin. Many moons ago, (circa 1998) I planted a 935 Lloyd in my nice clay soil which, at the time, had few amendments. That patch had tons of sun and I believed I knew what I was doing. What more would need? I took that prized Lloyd seed all the way up to 325 pounds and was really bummed. Not knowing what I had done wrong, I spent tons of time studying the successful growers in the world, (we have to be the foremost copycats of the world) beefed up my soil and educated myself on genetics. Beyond the above 4 things and once they’re in place, I’ve found the harder I work in my patch, the more success I have. Joe Pukos

8/25/2007 6:58:26 AM

Leicester, NY

PumpkinBrat,
I would prefer to run my sprinklers in the morning, but that’s not always possible for me. Most of the time, I’m running them when I get out of work at 4:00 PM. I am usually out in the patch area then and can keep close eye on the watering situation. I don’t use water soluble fertilizers, but I do put my fish emulsion, liquid kelp and liquid humic acid through the sprinklers once per week. The weekly amount of one pint of the go juice flows through a miracle-gro in-hose applicator and onto my 5 plants. Joe Pukos

8/25/2007 7:18:15 AM

South East

to PAP, When you grow your pumpkinplants,,someone with your experience knows its fases and is likeley to see these and recognize,,each fase,,u can stimulate,,being with biological or chemical fertilizer,,,my Question is,,,when your looking for the biggest possible that means growing on the edge of whats possible and pushing to more then the plant in normal conditions actually could do, Do you push the plant in each stage,,,or just in the final stage the fruitstage,,? and if so what are the signs your over or underdoing it..

8/25/2007 8:46:43 AM

Phoenix, AZ

I am not an HH however, I did want to put my thoughts into this thread because my experiences are very valid towards acheiving higher weights.

Here is what I believe: find the limiting factors and eliminate them.

For example, my water source was the most significant limiting factor over the past years. Once I eliminated that as an issue, I acheived a new AZ record. Another limiting factor for me: intense heat. I eliminated the issue (somewhat) by planting early. Another: extremely low humidity. I have not determined how to deal with this yet.

Obviously though I still think Pap's 4 items are valid. For me, it is tough to lump my issues under "experience" in how to deal with them. Too simplistic.

8/25/2007 9:41:22 AM

Team Munson

Pap, soil and experience, you can get the seeds, the sun will be there, but if you don't prep your soil and maintain it, save the seeds and grow veggies. Experinence is a big factor, you can have all the the other factors under control but if you maintain your plant and fruit poorly it can make for a disapointing year. Another huge factor is getting out and doing the "dirty work" burying vines, weeding, staying on your spray progam, etc... I always motivate myself to the dirty jobs by thinking that the people that can beat me are working on their plants every day and if I want to beat them I will have to out work them.

I haven't had a personal best in 7 years PAP and need to prove that I can still grow big pumpkins but thanks for compliment any way. Jerry, Quinn, Joe, Larry, Gerry, Ron, Joe J., Jack, Sherry, I could go on for a while, are far better than myself and hope they will pitch in with your thread.

8/25/2007 9:56:00 AM

Elk Grove,Ca USA

Pap
Great post, think alot of times we get caught up in our daily lives and let things go by the way side. Guess I would call a heavy hitter as one who has mastered his climate. After 13 seasons, success is best put as doing the best you can with all the factors that it takes in growing AG. Seed, growing methods etc can be utilized in many different ways with the same result, one must be willing to try things diffent ( hard to do sometimes after yrs. of growing) Balancing what we enjoy in and out of the patch and always still learning. I still do not know what I am doing lol, though many still asked for advice. A closed mind will limit your ability to truely achieve what we all dream of in this sport.

8/25/2007 10:29:57 AM

Washington

Sav, I can answer this for Jack but I will also ask him and post later. Jack studies genetics. He can tell you the history behind every seed we plant. We avoid those who have splitting in their genes. He likes seeds that came from from pumpkins that weighed heavy. He also likes white seeds but will plant brown seeds if the other factors that he is looking for are there. We try to plant a lot of our own seeds because we feel that they have acclimated to our soil, sun and weather as well as they have the genetics behind them that we want. We plant a lot of proven seeds but will plant unproven with the right genetics. Hope this helps!

Sherry LaRue

8/25/2007 1:57:51 PM

Rhode Island

schiedi
we were formeraly known as the "rhode island giant pumpkin growers association" in late 2004 we changed our name to "southern new england giant pumpkin growers and added directors from mass (2) and ct (1).we pooled our resources (seeds and knowledge) and in 2005 was the top site in the world. something we hope to make a run at again in 2007
we came in second last year to those great growers of the "ohio valley giant pumpkin growers - quinn and matt werner,alan gibson,tim parks,jerry rose, steve razo,dave stelts,etc, to name a few.
the southern new england giant pumpkin growers for the last few years have had all one thousand pounds and up competing for our top ten awards.

you asked why the 1068 was such a good seed?
the cross was carefully thought out long before growing season of 2003.
in 2004 it was planted locally by a couple growers who had great success with it- one offspring won the largest weigh off in new england "the topsfield fair"
the following year most of our better growers planted the 1068 and was pretty much responsible for the top ten championship in 2005.
in 2006 it was successfull to the point where it became the number 1 producer of big pumpkin all time.

basicly? for a seed to become hot it needs to see soil and once it does produce? you need people that know what they are doing to plant it.
we were fortunate that this was the case.
pap

8/25/2007 2:17:47 PM

Rhode Island

we water in the morning or evening between 4 and 5 pm,but mostly mornings.
we water underneath with a hose from august on out so as not to get the leaves wet ( especially when its very humid )
so as not to help any powdery mildew,etc, from developing or spreading.
we add no fertalizers to the soil once the plants go in. we do add kelp and fish to our leaf sprays and the couple of soil soup applications we do.
from august on out to mid september we will add calcium sprays once a week (if) our tissue test indicate it is needed
pap

8/25/2007 2:25:09 PM

Rhode Island

cook
we dont really push the plants but rather do all our homework and soil adjustment spring and fall. we usually let the leave color tell us what is needed as well.

dark blue colored leaves will bloat and eventually grow so big they will lay on the ground (usually from to much nitrogen in soil)causing problems as water sits on the downed leaves inviting mildew etc to set in. (you can stake them up with bamboo stales if you have the time )
a nice medium green is good.

ben
i agree with you. climate and location play a major roll and can be a limiting factor creating an uneven playing field. my comments and experiences are all east coast related
pap

8/25/2007 2:32:35 PM

Northern Cambria, Pa.

Hard to put in order but soil, WEATHER, luck, seed, more luck, experience, a little more luck, all have to be there. You really need to know your soil but if luck isn't there maybe try a new location. Not much can be done about the weather but if you keep at it you will get some good years. As for the seed, it take more luck to find one that will do well in your climate but your own seed or your neighbors may be the best ones to try provided the genetics are there. We only have time to water in the evening under the leaves also, but I believe evening is the best time. We use no fert in the water and very little foliar feed at any time. If you have no experience there are many that do who will help you if you ask.

8/25/2007 9:15:27 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Does anyone go heavy on K late in the season?

8/25/2007 10:25:27 PM

ordinary,VA

What can i do in September to get the most out of my pumpkin?
really no risk of frost here in September.

Lost 60% of plant leafs three weeks ago due to 70mph winds.
letting some new growth ,but cutting all flowers off.
should i let the new growth continue?

8/25/2007 11:47:36 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

Do any of you top growers deviate much from the Christmas tree pattern of plant training? Also, do you ever cut off every other secondary on your plants? If so, do you find this to be a better training method? Thanks for the great replies so far!

8/26/2007 12:25:05 AM

Littleton, Colo

Thanks Pap's ! Like your style alot !!!!!!!!!!

8/26/2007 12:35:19 AM

Leamington, Ont.

Thank you Sherry.

8/26/2007 1:29:35 AM

Littleton, Colo

I hope this isn't a stupid rookie question....has anyone ever tracked the growth with lunar light? The full moon does throw somewhat of a shadow??? Thank you !

8/26/2007 1:54:09 AM

Rhode Island

giant pumpkin dude
if you are really serious about getting the max out of your plant and pumpkin a soil test is definately needed early spring (or fall if you are preping in the fall - we do both)
even more importantly is a leaf tissue test that needs to be done and back to you by august 1st.
the results will tell you what if anything like phosporous,calcium,etc, needs to be added for the push home.
every top grower has their own methods but one thing we all have in common is knowing the importance of a properly balanced soil.
doug 14
we tried pruning every other side a few years ago and found this method really increased the size of our leaves. plus we had much less of a food factory after all was said and done. unless a side is in the way we leave all sides.
biz
sorry we are not into lunar light testing just yet. lol
pap

8/26/2007 5:38:48 AM

Belgium Europe

@ Drew Papez. What are the nets over your patch for?
thanks,
jos

8/26/2007 7:23:20 AM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Thanks loads for the input pap.

8/26/2007 8:10:42 AM

Wood River, IL ([email protected])

Pap's I have a basket full of questions. But I'll keep it to a few.

How do you water by hand, with out tearing up your plants with the hose.

What is it us wannabes are looking for in our soil test.

And last but not least. and this is for anybody that want to tackle it. Could somebody layout a good pesticide & fungacide program that I could follow next year. I just can't never remember what you can spray together and can't spray together.

Thanks for the help.

Kenny

8/26/2007 8:35:06 AM

Ohio

Kenny, Id ask Tremor about the pesticide, fungicide program and which can be used together, alot of the heavy hitters go to him when they have questions about that, he has many many years in that department, meaning hes starting to get old, right Tremor?,lol

8/27/2007 4:13:33 AM

Rhode Island

kenny
watering by hand is not that difficult. we walk around the outside of the plant and water in. we keep the base fairly dry as well. (watering around the crown but not on top of it help keep the base from late season rot,disease,etc )
also
im going to ask ron to post some good soil report averages and also a entry level type spray program. ron is the expert in that catagory and we all can benefit from his knowledge.
ron and i are like two wheels on a motor cycle.one is no go without the other. lol
pap

8/27/2007 5:59:58 AM

Wood River, IL ([email protected])

Brooks, I had Tremor help me last year (Rookie season). When I knew less than I know now, And I was trying to go CHEAP, the light bulb finally came on in my head. I'd like to have a program that if I stick to it I don't have to hold my breath everyday when I walk into the patch wondering what's going to be flying through my patch's air space, or what's funny colors my leafs will be turning that day. lol And I understand that Tremor is a heavy hitter in his own right. I'll try and get with him this fall/winter when things slow down.

Pap's I look forward to seeing that info. When you water by hand are you soaking the buried vines are just getting them wet? How much time do you think it takes to water each plant? How many times a week do you do this?

Thanks everyone great posting.

Kenny

8/27/2007 6:35:46 AM

Wi

Sherry / Jack or others, what is the benefit of a white seed? I've never heard of this before.

8/27/2007 9:20:53 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

For the HH.....How deep do you bury your mains and sides? how many HH use city water vice tanked warm water??....Do you feel the clorine/cloramine wipes out the biology sprayed from Active Compost tea? Do the HH try to coincide their peak growth cycle to the hours of daylight for their locale? What months do you get your highest weight gains? How many have compost piles on their property that are cooking now for future years to come? Thanks for the help.....Wiz

8/27/2007 9:23:06 AM

Washington

Chris, Jack likes the white seeds because of the genetics that produced white seeds. There isn't any different benefits from tan seeds. I think it's just the genetics no matter what color the seed. Some of the older seed stock was the smaller white seeds.

Wiz, our trenches for our vines are about 3 inches deep. we don't bury mains until they are about 4 feet or so beyond the pumpkin. We have well water. Our well is 303 feet deep so the water is COLD. We used to heat the water in barrels but found no significant benefits vs the work involved. We throw all pumpkin vines, leaves, and pumpkin over a steep bank we have to compost and add to the bank. We do not use it on the garden, we buy mushroom compost. Since our growth is slow and steady, we plant to get the maximum length to the growing season. August (when it's warm) is probably our best month. This year we are counting on Sept.

8/27/2007 9:53:06 AM

Washington

To answer an earlier question -
Sun-soil-seed.
We have excellent soil, a soil report is a MUST. We have some of the best seeds. The one thing we cannot control is the weather. This year we have been very cool. We still have some large pumpkins but they are behind previous years growth.
Sherry

8/27/2007 9:55:44 AM

Wi

Thanks Sherry.

8/27/2007 10:33:41 AM

Georgia

To all the heavy hitters. My neighbor who has a great garden always ammends and tills in the fall. Then he takes and covers the entire area with plastic. Do yall see any negative or positive benefits from doing such? Thanks in advance

8/27/2007 10:42:20 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

Thanks Sherry! But we are thinking about raising our humidity level to that of Washington State as we think thats a big key. Colorado Humidity is 10-15% at best unless its raining then its 20%....lol But we have seen some great growing at S & S, and humidity was high at their patches with misters and foggers....we think thats a key......

Also, for the HH, how much daylight hours do you all get being in that upper Latitude...??? I think this is a big key.....sunlight exposure hours per day......?

8/27/2007 10:55:21 AM

Crossett Arkansas

First year grower here. I know I have a lot of work to do on my soil to get it even close to right. I'm in south arkansas and the heat is terrible. I've been told that using misters will only invite diseases,but I don't see any other way to give my plants a break from the heat. How do you all feel about using misters?

pap, thanks for all of your replys through out the summer on the message board. Every time I saw your name I read your reply. But i sure did'nt know that you were Dick Wallace til you did this tread. THANKS
coop

8/27/2007 1:43:22 PM

Ontario

Jos
The netting is shade cloth, 30 percent. We get alot of heat and humidity along with smog. Keeps the leaves cooler by about 10 degrees. Many 100 plus days here in the banana belt. Most people think Canada is cool but here is were most of the fruit is grown. Can go 1 hour in either direction and is much cooler. The humudity kills the leaves around here. Been vacationing in the finger lakes region on weekends this year and is south of me and cannot believe the difference on how cool it is. Left Stoney Brook State Park today and temp was 20 degrees celsius(70 farenheit), when I got home was 30 degrees celcius (90 degrees farenheit) factor in the humidity and was 98 degrees farenheit.

Great post

drew

8/27/2007 8:49:29 PM

Washington

Wiz, You are right about the hours of daylight being a factor. If you look at the latitude band that runs across the US and Canada you see a correlation between where the biggest ones are grown and hours of sunlight. Alaska grows those huge cabbages but have just now broken into the really large pumpkins. They get so much more sunlight in the summer but don't have many growers. Some parts also get a lot of rain like Juneau.

8/27/2007 9:15:42 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

How much composted manure do you heavy hitters usually put on in the fall per plants area? Do you have clay or sandy soil?

8/27/2007 11:27:32 PM

Rhode Island

jason -to me covering the garden with plastic is like putting a plastic shopping bag over your own head. if the worms and microbs can not breath they will either leave or die off. mostly die off.

brian - our soil is average farm type soil. clay is about a foot or better down in the ground. our patch drains well.8 to 10 percent organic matter is enough in your soil.

kenny - we have had no rain to speak of here in rhode island this summer. all water comes from a shallow well we dug just for the patch. we water every other day. yes we soak vines and all just do not bury them in water, - you main vine should be uncovered at this time of the year so you can spot any possible problems with the main.
we uncover the first couple ft of each side off the main as well.
we bury to help control insects that will bore into the pumpkins vines. if vines were intended to be buried they would have grownn naturally under the soil.
pap

coop - with those extreme high tempatures any grower would be challenged. id continue to mist during the hot-sunny days at say 3 to 4 minutes every hr.(day time only not at night) --thats when you invite disease into your patch.
you could also in lew of misters try covering a plant with a very think cheese cloth type shade over the plant. (remember the cloth the god father had over his tomatoes in that first movie?

8/27/2007 11:52:57 PM

Georgia

Thanks for the answer Pap.

8/28/2007 7:44:07 AM

Washington

Pumpkinbrat,
We put anywhere from 3 to 6 inches of mushroom compost/cow manure on our patch each fall. Since we don't till at any time other than by hand our organics stay on top in layers. Our winter rains filter it through the existing soil/compost. Our original soil in most of the garden is red clay that didn't drain. We have been building it up for 18 years. Now our soil is fluffy. The manure and compost we get from a bark and garden facility. It has been processed so it is well composted with no weed seeds. Our soil is full of worms that help keep it aerated. Also because of our rains we don't use leaves at all. We found in the past that the leaves would mold and we didn't want to have disease and mold problems.
Sherry

8/28/2007 11:16:55 AM