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Our 981 Zunino has very close secondary vines. This plant is also making tertiary vines like crazy now.

In order to bury the secondaries I first need to remove some of them.

I'd like to already have them buried but have delayed for this reason.

When do folks who grow "every other secondary" do their pruning?

We just pollinated a fruit on it this week. I don't want to upset that apple cart by pruning. Would you wait until the fruit is on it's way or just start hacking?

7/14/2007 11:24:33 AM

Jericho Vermont

Steve,
I usually pune the secondaries before they even get a chance to grow. I have always been afraid in terminating them too late. I have stopped secondaries from getting any longer to help with weeding strategies though. Sometimes plants do put them out awful close together.
John

7/14/2007 1:59:41 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Steve,

I allow every secondary prior to the set to grow and terminate 1 week after fruit set, with no secondary any longer that 12 feet.

All secondaries after the fruit are allowed to grow no longer than twelve feet, and terminate all of them when the youngest reaches the edge of the patch(total plant length of thirty feet). Chistmas tree pattern before and after the fruit. I will allow the main to continue to grow beyond that point with no secondaries at all until the end of September.

Terminating secondaries before the fruit one week after setting provides "push" forward. Teminating on the other side of the fruit provides "push" bacward. Allowing the main to continue provides a buffer for the fruit.

All this must be done in sync with your nutrient program(i.e., when you go heavy on P and then on K or however you think is best).

Some people like to lop every other secondary so as to provide access for plant maintenance. Personally, I tough it out and wade through them to lop tertiaries. Some also believe that wading through the plant compacts the soil and damages roots. But in my case, there is no shortage of roots, as we added M-Roots to the trench as we buried and have a very loose soil.

I believe that secondaries are the food factory and that lopping them also decreases the factory's capability.

As Dan would say, "just my two cents worth".

7/14/2007 2:49:02 PM

sevierville, Tn

I have found that if you have to remove a secondary to bury the others cause they are close together, after they grow you can't tell that one was removed. If its to be removed, i cut it as soon as possible, no sense taking the energy to grow something thats going to be cut. After the fruit, once your sure thats the keeper, access to fruit balanced by some growth in line with patch space.

7/14/2007 3:12:45 PM

[email protected]

I'm not ready to terminate secondaries on this plant yet. I'll wait till they're about 14'. The issue is how close together they are.

Check it out:

http://www.bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=68706

See how close they are to each other?

Some aren't even 12" apart. I also made the mistake of placing this plant too close to the edge of the patch so unlike the others, I wasn't able to train the first few BACK to make more room.

7/14/2007 4:44:28 PM

Deer Park, WI

Steve-

I dont think your close secondaries are a problem...conversely, this may be an advantage. I too have a plant with close secondaries, some 6-8" apart. I bury each one and not worry about crowding.

Lets work thru some logic- I've ditched the every other secondary practice- the cold WI climate dictates maximum plant material in order to have a reasonable size plant prior to fruit set. Not exactly sure how your climate compares to our frozen tundra, but regardless, everyone benefits from larger plants prior to fruit set.

Sink/source relation logic: Keep in mind that photosynthetic nutrients translocate slowly and preferably to the closest sink. A compact plant with short spaces between nodes suggests lesser travel times and distances, and may actually offer advanatages over lanky plants.

Other than the pumpkin itself, i do not see any reason why space between vines is necessary. Yes, there are concerns of fungi-related moisture issues within thick canopies, however this has never been a problem in my patch, regardless of vine count.

last comment- Im going to further denounce my position on every-other vine pruning. I supported this practice for a few years, before realizing its shortcomings in my patch. The practice literally cuts in half the amount of nodal secondary root systems. If fruit growth is a function of source availability and sink strength, how better to enhance source availability than allowing for maximal root growth? Twice the sources when you are not pruning!!!

7/14/2007 6:10:45 PM

Steve how about this plan,,take off every 3rd secondary per side and spread the 2 remaining in that space, it should give you the room you are looking for and will supply more tap roots in the end game. I'd start ASAP and gettum buried.....that set will take or it won't you need the roots growing !!!

7/14/2007 6:11:51 PM

Dang,,,looks like Joe figured that one out,,hmmmm

7/14/2007 6:52:06 PM

sevierville, Tn

After seeing the pict, they don't look too close. I'd bury em asap. Cut any tertiary vines. looks like a nice plant.

7/14/2007 7:05:32 PM

southwest MO

Watch for some weaker secondarys that have way bigger ones on each side. I think these make good canidates for pruneing. Couple other thoughts... If you let that canopy fill in real crowded the leaves may grow very tall competeing for the sun. This can lead to very thin stems that will fall or break easy as the season progresses. Also if you do crowd it keep an eye down in there for terteraries that made it though pruneing. They will be harder to get to with out beating up your plants. Dont let them get 6 ft long down in there they become very difficult to remove with out damageing those tall stems. The plant does appear to have a tad bit shorter stems so maybe this wont be a problem. But I have found crouded short stems leaves really reduce air flow and stem rot occurs more readily. Go with your gut... If you think having enough plant behind will be a problem dont prune very aggressivly... You have several plants there. Try a few different pruneing strategies...

7/14/2007 10:01:11 PM

[email protected]

Joe's root advantage theory has me won over. The leaf advantage balances itself out in time. On a thinned plant the fewer leaves grow larger to fill in the spaces. BUT - they are sinks during that time all while giving up significant source producing roots.

A tighter leaf canopy also keeps the weeds down which is a much needed benefit in this soil.

BG points out part of my initial concern. This 981 Zunino is make tertiary vines at both side of every leaf axis. I had to have two well trained children get in there to cut them. Us old men didn't stand a chance. LOL

Dan's idea might be necessary at some point but we'll play that card only if we must. For now we'll get back to burying.

Thanks for all the input.

7/14/2007 11:42:56 PM