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Phoenix, AZ

I am not sure but my theory is that plants that have had a chance to climatize to my soil and my weather are most likely to do better. I assume that a year of growing will allow this and the seed from the fruit will be able to handle what my soil and weather offer.

So, here is what I am trying to get at: I plan on growing again this summer only to self a plant so next Feb. start date it has climatized. However, my plan would put a fruit growing in 103+ F weather every day for 2 months and I am wondering if the potential of the SEED would be reduced by this. I don't really care about size of fruit here just want to grow and self something that is ready for next spring.

4/27/2007 9:28:13 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Climatizing would take decades...if even possible. You might even have to cross a heat loving Cucurbita Moschata with a Cucurbita Maxima to achieve what you are looking for to create a hybrid. Then plant several of the offspring to choose the traits you are looking for. Planting them out for several years. Some plants seem to tolerate I don't think the climatize.

4/27/2007 9:44:51 AM

Omaha, NE (N41-15-42 )

Can you really cross a Moschata and a Maxima?

4/27/2007 1:59:30 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

No its got to be Maxima x Moschata.
http://cuke.hort.ncsu.edu/cgc/cgc01/cgc1-29.html

4/27/2007 2:35:00 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

There is a lot of wrong information on the internet. I know we grow a japanese pumpkin that is a maxima x moschata. That needs a moschata for a pollinator to produce fruit.

4/27/2007 2:43:07 PM

Ohio

how about mozzarella and Milonakis(Andy),will that cross?lol

I dont think we can say for sure if a seed can or can not climatize, how would we know if its never really been tried,or has it been tried? Id think if I grew the same seed and then the seed from that pumpkin and keep repeating this every year that growing a pumpkin in 100 plus weather wouldnt you think it would adapt, or climatize? I dunno, I think it would.

4/27/2007 3:01:28 PM

western Kentucky

Someone used the term the other day "hyper-evolving", with respect to our genetically breeding desired traits. In my opinion as fast as we have seen these things change in the last 30 years... I wouldnt rule out climatizing. I've had plants that wilted on 90+ degree days, and plants that havent wilted on 95+ degree days. "Heat tollerance" is a factor and some plants stand up better in hotter climates. Consistantly choosing and breeeding fruits that have worked well in your climate... is bound to help you out somehow. Same thing can be said about colder climates.. and so on.

4/27/2007 5:25:17 PM

Ben I really don't understand what you are saying... are you talking about a single plant acclimating to your climate... or having a genetic line become adapted to your climate?!

4/27/2007 9:08:54 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

Are those plants that wilt really less heat tolerant than those that don't? Or is is just a better root system in one, or better soil conditions? Or, maybe wilting is a good trait, in high heat, as the plant is conserving moisture.

4/27/2007 9:32:30 PM

Phoenix, AZ

Brigitte,

I am talking a genetic line adaptation. I know plants adapt to a certain extent but I also know that their offspring are more likely to be adaptable to the enviroment they had come from. This is the same as a runner adapted to training at sea level put up in Colorado Springs, CO. He will not be able to train at the same level for a number of weeks but eventually he adapts. This is a known occurence throught the plant and animal kingdom.

We are not talking genetic manipulation here. I am saying my theory is a plant, and even moreso, its offspring are able to adapt to an environment they are exposed to.

However, this misses my main point: will a seed from a fruit grown in 103+ F temps be altered to the point of be less likely to produce large fruit?

4/27/2007 9:33:47 PM

South Bloomfield, Ohio

Doug,

Wilting is the plant's defense mechanism against moisture loss. As long as a plant is wilting, it is not producing. All stomata close to their minimum size and neither take in nutrients or respire.

And yes, those plants which do wilt are less heat-tolerant.

Wilting is not a good thing in any case.

4/27/2007 9:45:57 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

I may be wrong, but it seems that if you keep selfing a seed, and growing it in the same area(high heat), that the only way it will adapt to that area(high heat), is if there is a change in at the genetic level. I would think you'd need to grow out a number of those seeds each year, and keep selfing(and growing out) the seed from the plant/s that showed the most tolerance to the heat.

4/27/2007 10:42:08 PM

Ben... plants do have adaptations like that. It happens to anything perennial every spring and fall... this is an extreme example to prove the point... but say you have a hardy plant that can survive to 0 degrees. If you give that plant a few days of 0 degrees in the middle of summer, it's gonna croak, because it's not adapted to that weather at that time of year.
On the other hand... some growers like to cause water stress when the plant is young... this causes all kinds of fun hormone things to go on... but the result is a more developed root system, which is beneficial later on down the road. I think this is more of what you're getting at doing, with the 103 degree temps???
To answer that main question... I would say no. The seed from the fruit grown in high temps isn't going to be less apt to produce big fruit. That's like saying if I train for a race at sea level, my children can never adapt to training in CO because I never did. Get where I'm coming from??

4/27/2007 11:30:15 PM

Wilting isn't the plant's defense mechanism against moisture loss! The stomata closing is its defense, among other things like vertical leaf orientation to reduce surface area of moisure loss. Water stress causes in increase in ABA levels which causes stomatal closure.
Wilting occurs when transpiration is occuring faster than the plant can take up water in its roots... that's why plans may wilt in a hot or windy day even though the soil is moist.

4/27/2007 11:34:03 PM

and ... I agree with Doug on the whole plan to increase heat tolerance... you would have to grow out several and pick the best ones over generations.

4/27/2007 11:34:51 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

Thanks for clearing that up Brigitte. I knew I should have done some studying before I posted that LOL. Thanks for your input. I had some of this material in college, but haven't kept it retained in my memory. It seems you're learning your stuff! Good job.

4/27/2007 11:48:41 PM

Ohio

Doug, read what I said, and compare mine with yours,lol

4/28/2007 8:13:32 AM