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Warwood

Folks,
Are there any alternatives selling for the active ingredients in fungicides like Subdue Maxx, Cleary's 3336, Alliette, medallion? The cost of these products are mind-boggling. I don't believe there is anything on the consumer shelves or other granulars that may work mostly for fusarium or pythium prevention besides the brand names, or is there? Do any of you know of other products that help prevent crappy fungi diseases? I may just do serious soil solar sterilization and chance it. I can't afford all that sh-- for preventing a disease that may never come. I think I'd rather replace the top two feet of my patch with sterile compost than to do all the steps that Basamid requires. I could buy a nice diamond ring for my wife for what costs are required for the recommended preventive chems. Maybe I'm being bufooned by chem salesman? LOL I believe the next "Mozart" in the AG WOrld will be keen into soil science and beneficials i.e. Humates, humic acid, hyphae, VAM fungi etc. etc. if you know what I mean..Thanks ahead for any responses. Hope I'm not the only one feeling this way. Don

4/10/2007 11:02:04 PM

[email protected]

Don,

I'm fielding a LOT of questions like this. This year is especially interesting with Merit 2F going from (last year) $700 per gallon to this year (generics) under $500 per gallon & still dropping!!!!!!!!!!

Original = Generic
Subdue = Mefenoxam Pro
Clearsy's 3336 = Too many to list - ask for Thiophanate-methyl
Alliette = Agrophos, Actaphos, etc - too many to list
Medallion = not yet

Forget controlling major diseases with biorationals. They are fine for keeping new patches with low pressure clean for a while but eventually they will be easily overwhelmed if we keep in the same soil for too many seasons.

More ideas for folks who want the best on a reasonable budget:
Heritage is coming off patent. Look at Disarm from Arysta. LOT'S of generic Merit formulations: Submerge, Enforce, etc. Bayer is going crazy trying to keep market share so they're dropping the original Merit cost to formulators & distributors like crazy.

4/11/2007 12:01:22 AM

Montoursville, PA

I have found that the basics which may include kelp, fish and modest use of molasses and the use of aerobic teas has completely cleaned up my filthy second and third year patch. The weight improvements are the proof in the pudding. Year two I completely stopped introducing poisons to my soil excepting minimal run off from gentle foliar spraying on occasion. Neem Oil has been my number one attack. I find that horticultural oils do as well as many other choices. Late in the season I still chickened out and used a so called very good fungicide one time. The major point made here is that nearly all that works against the biological rebuilding of my soil has been eliminated.

4/11/2007 10:04:43 AM

Montoursville, PA

I found that by working with the soil biology instead of against it all things get better, the plant gets stronger and the larger fruit follows.

Any grower may of course apply this simple approach. It may not pop out a world record in a day or two but it sure will improve the sustainable practices situation. There are enough examples to suggest it is quite possible to do this based on growers practices today.

4/11/2007 10:11:03 AM

Warwood

You always come through when someone is getting down or needs the info to set them straight. I guess I was a little grumpy last night thinking about how we can get diseases down, as this appears to be the most important factor to growing a Giant along with selective genetics. I will still use the usual mychorriza, thrichoderma and Bio-stimulant but looks like prevention is very important. At the very least I will need to look into some Thiophanate-methyl and some form of Subdue. I (we) don't know how to thank you enough for all the help you've given us. I like your very professional delivery on the site. Of course you may get bashed a time or two by inconsiderate growers but who doesn't when in an arena with so many possibilities. Thank You for your time. Don

4/11/2007 10:25:24 AM

Warwood

It's almost like some medical patients that try and go all natural or alternative, it just doesn't always work but if they're ill they'll try complementary methods and anything that may work for them. Medical conditions are much more important than what we're doing but just an analogy (I happen to be in the medical field nurse and therapist). Anyways I think one day their may be some more remedies for plant illness which become synergistic for insects and disease, probably mostly from the plant kingdom and soil science engineers will come up with some pretty interesting prospects in the near future. Soil science advances will be the new hope and homeostasis within the soil environment with the addition of certain recipes of bio-stimulants,growth enhancers, compost production, soil replacements, preventive deterrants to disease,trap preventions of disease, rotation methods etc. etc. Just a thought. For now we better protect our patches with the aid of chems or we won't have one. Any other thoughts to this post would be much invited as to alternative to brand names or other products that will do the job for disease control. I will also research this and post any findings. Let's continue to make this a Co-op AG program getting to the nuts and bolts of the science. Ask educated questions...post as much helpful info as you can. Would love to see the heavy-hitters chiming in a lot more. Anyway I've rambled enouch...Thanks, Don

4/11/2007 10:26:37 AM

Phoenix, AZ

Do a bit of digging into Silicate. Generally found in the form of Potassium Silicate by companies such as Dyna-Gro's Pro-Tek.

Si is a very interesting nutrient that is overlooked.

Ben

4/11/2007 12:40:05 PM

Utah

Don,
I'm not as knowlegeable as Tremor, but I do know that a couple of local growers who have had problems with fusarium and/or pythiumin the past.

They both used Banrot last year with good success. Both got new personal bests. one went from basically declining weights over the last 6 years. 2000-568, 2001-387, 2002-under 300, 2003-405, 2004-under 300, 2005-430, 2006-650. The other went from a PB of 752 to 1104. Banrot is Thiophanate-methyl (Clearys 3336) and Etridiazole (Truban). It is listed as helping to control: Pythium • Phytophthora • Rhizoctonia • Thielaviopsis • Fusarium • Damping Off. It is also fairly easy to use. It is applied as a drench. I can't remember how often- I believe it is something like every 8 weeks.
Here are a couple of links:
http://florawww.eeb.uconn.edu/msds/banrot_msds.pdf
http://btgrowersupply.stores.yahoo.net/banrot2lb.html

It is still relatively expensive but cheaper than lots of other stuff I've seen out there. I have a local store that has it for around $70 for a 2 lb bag (40% wettable poweder) That should last you the whole depending how big you patch is. I was thinking of using it this year myself.
Also I found these charts to be helpful:
http://www.bfgsupply.com/UserFiles/File/Fungicide%20Poster%20Green%204%2005.pdf
http://www.bfgsupply.com/UserFiles/File/Ornamental%20Fungicides%20Master.pdf

Gordon

4/11/2007 12:51:24 PM