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Phoenix, AZ

On my plant, it it obvious that certain secondaries are just stronger. There are about 3 that are much thicker, root quicker and put out tertiaries at an outstanding rate. All others seem to be much more spindly and don't like to root easily at all.

Is there a reason for this?

4/8/2007 7:54:44 PM

[email protected]

The ones closest to the crown are typically the most aggressive. Is this not the case?

4/8/2007 10:33:59 PM

Phoenix, AZ

Yes it is the case.

I guess I just assumed that all the secondaries would be aggressive equally but this is not the case. Also, I noticed that secondaries that came from nodes with females (that were ultimately culled) produce stronger secondaries based on the attributes mentioned above. These are obviously not near the stump.

4/9/2007 1:07:43 AM

[email protected]

Ben,

Once a fruit is set you should see new secondary growth really slow down. The last few secondary vines might never need to be terminated as they will often just stop growing entirely.

How long are your secondaris now?

4/9/2007 6:54:36 AM

Montoursville, PA

It has been said by some very fine growers that the secondary vines following the primary selected fruit may in fact take away from the primary fruit's ability to maximize use of the existing plant. I find this interesting and very much possible.

Last year in fact my primary fruit slowed down as my practice may have permitted entirely to much secondary growth following the initial growth of the fruit. That being taken away may have permitted the fruit to continue where I would like to have seen the major growth namely in the fruit. During that agressive after the fruit growth I grew a great patch of lettuce. This may have been a lesson for me. More growers are saying this one way or another.

4/9/2007 8:08:42 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Doc, How does that saying go? Too many sinks in the kitchen makes for a lot of bitchen.....If you have more that one sink actively growing you are dividing up the available resources. This includes stealing calcium away from that young fruit just at the time when it needs it most. Combine this with a bit of weather induced stress and is it any wonder the darn things blow up or some sides grow slowly......

4/9/2007 2:34:40 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

For what it's worth, I have a bad habit of letting my secondaries get way too long. At the end of the year my main vine peters out at less than 20 feet long, while my secondaries grow out to nearly 20 feet, making the plant nearly 40 feet wide. This year, I will correct that.

4/9/2007 5:56:30 PM

Canada

has anyone considered only letting the first two strong secondaires on either side of the main grow and let the tertiary vines on them grow at a 90 degree angle parallel to the main vine..this plant would still fill in the allowed area of say 20 x 25 or 25 x 25...you would have the stump and four very strong secondaries with substational growth on them to feed the fruit...?

4/9/2007 6:52:30 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

Interesting post. I've been thinking that maybe growing only three strong secondaries on each side of the main, before the fruit(six altogether), might be a good thing to try. I'm thinking of trying this on one or two plants. If I do, I may let the secondaries grow longer than I usually do, such as 18-20 ft. I'd like to hear your thoughts on this.

4/9/2007 9:33:54 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

Well, I think what you're talking about is called a "wishbone" configuration.

I will say this, let your secondaries grow really long, and your main will likely grow slowly and then stop before 20 feet. At least that's what it did for me.

4/9/2007 10:27:18 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

OK, after reading what I just wrote, let me try to say it another way. When I've let the secondaries grow long, I find that the main grows slowly. It does well until about 7 or 8 feet, then starts to slow down. Then time starts passing... July 1st goes by, July 10th, ..... and you're still waiting to get a female open at more than 10 feet out. Well, looking back at it I'm thinking that I need to more aggressively prune the secondaries in order to keep my main running.

4/9/2007 10:36:03 PM

[email protected]

This all speaks to the theory that you want as much plant as possible before making the final fruit selection. Since we all want an early fruit, we likewise want the plants bigger earlier.

Only half kidding: At the risk of grave & hateful consequences, why not juice a plant early with anhydrous to really run the vine early then use nitrogen inhibitors to save the early fruit? LOL

Let the hate mail begin. LOL

4/9/2007 11:01:07 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

Cliff,
I haven't noticed this myself. If your main slows at 7-8 ft. your longest secondaries are only 5-6 ft., I'm guessing. That would be quite short to terminate them at. Am I understanding you correctly?

4/9/2007 11:16:53 PM

Phoenix, AZ

Tremor,

To respond to your question, My secondaries are 8-12 ft before the fruit and less than 5 ft after.

Based on what people are saying, my plant is acting like it should in slowing the main growth to a crawl because the sink is the fruit. However, how do you all get a 500 SF+ plant? I am at possibly 200 SF at 80 days and don't see the plant going beyond 250 SF because of space. Granted, I pollinated at 10 ft because I was afraid of running out of room before I set one.

4/10/2007 12:44:20 AM

Pocatello ([email protected])

Doug,

Hmmm... I think the secondaries are longer than that at that time. But I just looked back in my journal from last year and didn't find any conclusive info... Looking at pictures my secondaries seem to be just as long as the main at about that time... I think the first two secondaries can grow faster than the main if given the chance. At least, on last year's 981 plant it appears they did. But I will admit that I'm going on memory here. This will be a good thing to look at this year, which vines actually grow fastest?

4/10/2007 12:56:25 AM