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Trumbull, CT 06611, USA

I am not really sure how to say this so here it goes. The amount of fake seeds going around is startling. In the last few weeks I have been had twice. I am trying to get rid of many of my seeds that I know I would never plant to those who want to give them a shot and maybe get something in return that I want to grow. Almost always they are given away for free unless I need something.

Lesson #1, don’t trade seeds. For those who have too many seeds, just give them away for those who have too many. The growers who need seed, just ask the original growers themselves if you want to grow it. If they do not have any available, move on and pick something else. There are many great seeds out there for free.

People who are switching seeds should be ashamed of themselves. We are working very hard to maximize growth, color, etc and need to know exactly what we are planting with no uncertainty.

I guess what I am trying to say here is we are just growing pumpkins. If someone needs to cheat, so be it……best of luck you. It is sad one needs to cheat someone out of a pumpkin seed. Ok, I am done ranting, but I am upset about this.

Ray

2/3/2007 2:40:47 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

Ray, I'm with you on this one. I've been fortunate to have been given many many good seeds (more than I can ever grow) and in turn have given to others that have shown a desire to grow them. I gave away a few proven seeds this year cause I had multiples of them and don't have room to plant them all.

I guess I'm confused as to why someone would send you or anyone a fake seed. I guess greed makes people do things that they would not normally do. For those of you who have done this....good luck sleeping at night.

2/3/2007 3:20:25 PM

Rhode Island

ray

i agree whole heartedly. unless you can get the seed from its owner or a very reliable source its very risky.i never trade seeds with anyone i do not know personally.we will give them out to auctions and individuals but do not trade.

that is reason we started stapling our seed packets together. while this does not guarentee any flim flam will be eliminated it will make one think twice.

we had a few fake 1068s brought to our attention last winteras well

pap

2/3/2007 3:26:33 PM

Flowery Branch, Georgia

Ray

Pap is right unless you get the seeds from the grower or someone you trust BEWARE!

Fake seeds have been a problem for a long time.

The culprits usually get identified and scorned but they
leave a trail of cheated growers.

2/3/2007 4:08:58 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

Never traded a seed, but have heard the stories...especially lately. Sort of curious, if the "proof" of fakes are out there...emphasis on "proof"...why are names not being mentioned...I think of this site as an extended family, and think that we should try and protect each other!!! Would numbering your seeds help keep things in order a little more? Trade recipients could then contact original grower and find out where the specific seed # went to. Sorta strange that this has come up on the message board, at the same time that it is running on the chat lines??? Peace, Wayne

2/3/2007 4:24:48 PM

[email protected]

That's too bad Ray. Chances are these folks might not have known they had fakes. Experienced growers can look at a seed & tell whether it is authentic but newbs...they can be had & too often are.

I don't trade seeds. Period.

The way I see it, if there is a seed I really want to grow, I will contact the grower for it only AFTER I've made up my mind to grow it. Hence there will be no hard feelings if I have a change of heart.

I understand the whole trading thing. I just choose to not participate in it.

2/3/2007 4:25:00 PM

Circleville

Seems to me that seeds are easily traced back to the original donor! I now that being a newby the other year I asked for more seeds than I could plant. After not having the time or really enjoying seed trading I gave those seeds to another grower that likes to trade. If anyone would trace the seeds back we could validate the source. This has always been a freindly site to be on, (at least for the last two years my personal experience) I think it would be bad carma for someone to stiff another grower! Also I now that being a new guy I would never get 1068 so I asked Ray for a 1081 and planted that seed this past year. The genetics are out their no need to fake a seed!!!! To get the desired genetics many many crosses with potential!!!!!!

2/3/2007 5:07:56 PM

Ca

I'm not sure how a fake seed gets passed off as real. Does somebody make up a fake envelope label, or put different seeds in an original envelope, or what? I can think of a couple of ways to get around this, although they seem paranoid even to me:
1. Grower could put fingerprint on envelopes, and possibly on seeds themselves, just like banks want a fingerprint if you cash a check and don't have an account. Even a partial fingerprint would be enough to assure authenticity.
2. Staple all envelopes, like Pap mentioned, and also seal with wax, with either fingerprint or grower's individual stamp, so that it could be detected if seal is broken.
3. number seeds, and keep a record of who got them. This would be a real pain for a top grower, with people emailing to verify provenance. But it would also be a pain to verify fingerprints.
4. Have a photo seed registry on this site, so if someone gets a seed that is tan and on the small side, they can check to find out if the seed actually is that color. Obviously this would only detect the dumbest substitutions.

2/3/2007 5:18:04 PM

Aloha, Oregon

I agree I have gotten fake seeds.Fake 1502`s which I sent to Ron and Pap to show them what someone sent me and most recently I got a fake 1068 Wallace.Its stupid to give someone fake seeds and just think your ruining the genetic gene pool of Giant Pumpkins.

Thanks!

Jordan

2/3/2007 5:29:26 PM

West By God Virginia

It all comes down to greed. There is a way around nearly every attempt to make a seed fake proof. Wax seal, you can buy a custom wax seal from any company that deals in them. Stapling can be defeated by either pulling out the staple and putting a new one in it's place. Numbering can be faked, but from what I understand that's what got the person caught recently. Seed Outlet Had about the only fake proof seed envelopes going. Hopefully that's the way Pumpkin Post is doing them. It is BS to fake a seed for any reason. I wonder how many pumpkin seeds are out there with fake genetics now? Pretty sad indeed!

2/3/2007 5:47:54 PM

Williamsport, Pa.

tells to grow my own..........this world is coming to "d" end

2/3/2007 6:12:26 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

A small amount of corruption should not scare us away from seeking the seeds we want. I keep my seeds in the original packets unopened and I maintain all correspondance and the bubbles, that is the best I can do for documentation. In a recent trade I was asked to open the seed packet and verify that the seed was in good condition. That is rare but I did it. Also if you receive two seed in a packet and need to split them up for planting or trading then one of the seeds would need to be repackaged. But less established growers who don't have all the direct contacts to top growers shouldn't feel like they can't get a top seed. Its just pumpkin seeds but maybe I trust people too much. If a person is looking for status thru seeds then you're in the wrong group. Jim

2/3/2007 6:14:16 PM

Vermont

How do you know when a seed is a fake ? What are the signs to watch out for ?

2/3/2007 6:17:10 PM

Cheyenne, Wyoming

Obviously, there is someone out there somewhere looking to take advantage of others in any area of life, seed trading is no different.

On the flip-side though, I have many times traded for a second or back-up seed, to a seed I intend to plant, or I planted. When I have compared how the new seed looks, compared to the seed I already have, (that I originally received from the grower), they have always looked exactly the same. It all depends on who you are trading with.

2/3/2007 6:24:00 PM

Leicester, NY

Sadly, people creating and trading fake seeds has been around for many years. After spotting some fake 805 seeds floating around a few years ago, I started to number and inventory my seeds. It’s not a perfect system, but at least it helps me keep track of where a particular seed might be. In the most recent episode that Ray is talking about, someone had one of my 1231.3 envelopes. I guess that’s good start if one is going toss a fake seed out there. The perpetrator did a fairly good job of picking out a seed that looked somewhat like the real thing. They even did good job of copying my handwriting sticking the “1231.3” on there, just like I do. Then they stuck a number on the seed and that’s when things fell apart. I tracked that number down and it so happens was sent to a very good friend, who by the way, still has that numbered seed is his possession. End of story. If I did have the name of the person or persons doing such things, I would not have any problem posting it and making it public. After this particular episode, I realized if I start writing the seed #’s on the envelope too (like Beachy, et al), that would add one more little deterrent. I have never planted a seed I didn’t get directly from the grower and I never will. It’s the only way I can be 100% sure of what I’m planting.

2/3/2007 6:34:51 PM

Paradise Mountain, New York

Ray,
I know where your coming from. A few years ago I got ripped off on a trade. I never told the person I was trading with I had another one of the same seed. When I got the seed from this person, I compared it to the one I got from the grower. Then I contacted the grower an asked if he had any white seeds from the pumpkin. Nope he said. You have to kinda question getting seeds from a trade where the same yellow envelope with seeds in it has been reopened several times and has many staple marks on it.
Now I send seeds from my pumpkins to gowers for there own seeds. I never trade with someone unless I know this person very well. Which is the grower himself with a seed he wants from me that I got from a grower. I never trade traded seeds at all. I don't wanted to be cheated out of a seed nor do I want to trade a seed that the person on the other end says it's a fake and makes me look bad.
Best think to do Ray is to find close pumpkin friends to trade with only and no one else.

2/3/2007 6:52:34 PM

Clinton, Iowa

I understand where alot of this is coming from BUt i will add this..our 1432 had all white type seeds.....but it also had 3 or 4 brown ones and were twice as thick as the whitey's.....that said I know it was only 3 or 4 BUt has anyone ever experienced something like this...say in a 50/50 mix..that would make it tough. I and Marc never sent the brown ones out...
DAN

2/3/2007 7:56:05 PM

Picton,ON ([email protected])

My son trades Yugio Cards. He trades threw a site that offers a rating system. Everytime a trade is completed each person gives the person they traded with a rating on how satisfied they are with the trade. This seems to work fairly well. I have made this suggestion to Ken D.

2/3/2007 8:09:24 PM

Sort of Sunny Sometimes, WA

Other than the just plain "wrongness" of this whole fake seed trading is the effect that it's going to have on the genetics that AG pumpkin growers have worked so hard to keep track of. If someone trades a 571 Huff (a fine seed in it's own right) as a 1600 Babalou and it produces something really BIG and orange . . . things are just going to get all messed up.

2/3/2007 8:48:10 PM

Lexington, Ky

I have had the opinion for more than a year that top shelf seeds must be controlled. I have shared my "control" idea with many in private but few have bitten, most merely chuckle. Absolute and honest verification is a simple task.
But, in order to provide a "guarantee", a grower would have to give up his/her pumpkin seed to make it possible and, it would cost money...unless the GPC decided to step in......

Obviously, my thought process is tailored to auction buyers and/or receipents of trades. There is no substitute for the well connected grower that can receive seed directly from a grower. For some of us and those that will eventually join the ranks, absolute verification is a comforting thought when acquiring seeds otherwise.

I intend no disrespect to Club Auctions but even I am aware of many winners attempting to verify seeds after the fact. It is no secret that many seed donations originate outside of the club. Perhaps the day will come that clubs will designate "No outside donations have been accepted for this auction. All seeds being offered are donated by the grower."

Many have questioned why unproven seed prices are off the charts this year.....Heck, if you play the odds, you'd be better off paying big bucks for a new unproven seed than paying big bucks for a proven seed that has better odds at being a fake. Make no mistake, one might still receive a fake unproven 2006 seed but the odds are slim, those seeds simply haven't changed hands more than once or twice.

Private criticism/support accepted here: [email protected]

Jamie

2/3/2007 10:02:16 PM

Indiana

Joe,
Very good point about numbering the seeds. I quickly gave that up tho. To much hastle. I can tell a seed from looking at it. Its very rare that I cant tell the difference between a couple if I have a known real one in front of me.

Tom

2/3/2007 10:24:33 PM

So. Maine

Hey Ray , thanks for this post as I was in the process of thinking about posting something similar as in " what percent of the seeds being traded by 2nd or 3rd party growers do you think are original true seed " ( something to talk about off season or in season.)

I'd think if you did grow a seed that you were not 100 % sure it was authentic you would not use pollen from that plant nor release any seeds taken from the fruit grown on that plant.

Not enough time available for me to number every seed that I send out from my giants so the best thing I guess is rely on the seeds you receive from growers who you trade seed for seed with or receive through auction , purchase through growers like the Dill's or a place you have trust in.

With that said are there any growers out there who know me well have a authentic 670 Daigle they could supply me with ? I'd like to grow it again this year. (can't blame me for trying) AL Berard email [email protected]

2/3/2007 11:25:21 PM

Frankfort Oh

VERY WELL SAID JOE

just to,,,,,say for myself ,,sense this seed exchange happened to me ,,,,,with the 1231,,,,after looking at the two ,,,,,,,the one joe gave me and then the fake ,,,,they looked so much alike i really didnt see the difference!!thats why i emailed joe ,,,,,,to see who he gave the seed to ,,,,,,,after hearing from joe ,,,,,i realized id been had ,,,,,,,but after saying that ,the reason, I traded in, the first place was, cause i liked, what the1231,done for me and just wanted to have, a couple for the next couple,,years to come ,,,,,,,,,growing my personal best with it ,,,was the number,one reason i sought after it in the first place ,,,,,,,,,,,,,and winning best of show with it !!!,,,,,,,,i liked everything about this plant ,,,the way it grew ,,the shape,color,,,,,etc,etc,,

but after this episode ,i will only get seeds from the growers ,them selfs from now on ,,,,,lesson learned ,,,,,but its a dam shame ,its come to this ,,,,,,ive been growing pumpkins sense i can remember ,,,,my dad started growing pumpkins in the early 70s,,,,,when the only seeds you could get was howard dill seeds ,,,,,,,after just four years of growing ,my dad became ill,,,,only acheving 320lbs P.B,,,,,,SO THE TRADE WAS PASSED DOWN,,,,,,,,,,senes then i took up growing them,,,,,in 2002,,,,,when southern ohio GIANT pumpkin growers was first formed ,,,,,and i was so, excited to get into the hobby ,,my first year ,,,growing my 426,,,,was the start of my new past time ,,,and still will be for years to come ,,so i want to say thanks to all the growers who gave me seeds for 05and 06 ,,,,,,and a speacial thanks to joe !!for giving me the 1231,,,,,in 05 ,,,,witch grew my P.B,,,,AND THANKS TO ALL THE honest growers out there ,,,,for making this a fun sport to hand down to my children someday!!!!!

ROB

2/3/2007 11:33:57 PM

Sophia WV

I got a bad seed just recently which I was tracking back to grower.I found that it was a fake.I had to make sure it was real because when making a cross you want a true cross.I after this year will have seeds straight from the grower themselves when I give a seed away or trade with someone I let them know where the seed came from.I logg my seeds when bubble arrive and write numbers down.I have also seen that rumors start very easy and hurt growers that are innocent of any wroung doing.I think that people should talk to the party and find out all circumstances involved.I have not traded no where near as much as I did my first year here for this reason.I want to get the best seeds I can so I can grow a good pumpkin and if I dont grow a certain seed and someone needs one I want them to be true blue sure what they are getting.Also people ought not talk of a bad trade till they know all details not bits and pieces.Just had to add a few words hope this helps someone.
Robert

2/4/2007 12:01:45 AM

Rhode Island

if i had definate proof of a grower who was duplicating any seeds id be the first one to call him (or her ) out.

unfortunately, the fake seeds sometimes go unnoticed until they have passed thru several hands.

so, as i mentioned earlier in this post. dont plant any seed unless you know it either came from the grower or you can verify its authenticity.

these rip off artists are going to kill the auction market as well.

2/4/2007 1:04:19 AM

Paradise Mountain, New York

I think I would do the same think now that Joe Pukos said. If you know someone gave you a fake seed in a trade, you should post the person so others don't have the same thing happening to them....

2/4/2007 1:23:58 AM

Colo.Spgs.CO. Pikes Peak Chapter @ [email protected]

Well when it comes to seed security I guess it is going in the direction of that the rest of western civilization is going. We have homeland security, airport security, customs and import security,some border security, and it gets beefier every year on some borders. Well I guess We will all have to come up with some form of agreed upon Pumpkin Seed Security. What will be next, pollination security, Well I already have been practicing that for many years now, and it falls into the family of seed security as well before the seeds ever leave the fruit and end up in an envelope for the fellow grower. This is supposed to be about fun and trusting your fellow honorable grower, but as they say one rotten apple spoiles the whole bunch of apples, And I would hate tho see it spoil the pumpkin ambitions for many....JK

2/4/2007 3:56:45 AM

Robbins, Tn

just my two cents..i think it is a very rotten thing for someone to hand off/trade "fake" seeds for ANY reason!! there are way too many of us out here who are severely limited to the our growing space therefore having to put a lot of thought into choosing our seed to plant and then spend all the time into growing something that could be our potential best or the possibilty of new record..but to be cheated from the gratification one gets from growing AG's by someone is so low is totally rotten..that said..i believe kharma usually comes around to bite one in his own a-- and i hope "these cheaters" wind up spending a lot of time, money,etc..growing something that someone might have traded them..if i wanted a "crapshoot" for seeds, then i would go to walmart and buy my seeds...(incidently, did this last season for carolina cross watermelons..was not as pkg- word to wise)..nuff said..many thanks to all "honest" growers out there who have helped me and the rest of us with reputable [email protected]

2/4/2007 7:13:02 AM

Maine

Beware of the wolf in sheep's clothing.

2/4/2007 8:06:57 AM

ExtremeVegetables.com

It's unbelievable how many people in this thread alone have had fake seeds sent to them. I wouldn't even imagine it happening. :shakeshead:

A solution to numbering that may save time, would be to have a label program that printed labels which were numbered in order for you.
Standard seed packs/envelopes could be used and then the label used as a seal for the pack.

Another idea would be for each Club to have packages and packaging services available to it's members. Each member then has a uniform, standard, and more easily authenticated method of packaging at their disposal.

The GPC could possibly negotiate a deal on the behalf of all Giant Pumpkin clubs that decide to participate in the program, reducing the cost of software and related equipment for those clubs.

Side Note: I was sent ten fake 1502's, and four fake 1068's just last week.
Pap, you wouldn't be feelin sorry enough for me to replace those would you? ;)

LOL

2/4/2007 8:37:06 AM

Commack, NY

theres a simple solution for all of this, only plant seeds that you've gotten from the growers themselves, directly. ive traded in the past, but only with people that i know VERY well...Established guys that would never want to tarnish their reputation. yes i know this makes it difficult to get that current "hot" seed....but fear not, that 2006 seed with potential will be "hot" in a couple of years and fetching hundreds of dollars at auction, and you will have it in your collection.......im even going to take this a step further......guys with the reputation, the wallace's, rose's, pukos's, bobier's, kuhn's, whittier's, jutras's, werner's, Carlson's, STelt's, LaRue's, Dill's (you get the idea here) their seeds will ALWAYS be grown. the seeds these guys grow today are going to be the hot seeds of tomorrow for a multitude of reasons. If you send bubble's to those guys today, you WILL have that hot seed down the road.

2/4/2007 8:43:30 AM

Somerset,Ky

It's sad when a grower would take a great seed from a
great grower and try to pass a copy or duplicated seed.
For any reason trade or gift. Only to find out youv'e
been had.That's why I don't trade myself it is better
to obtain the seed from the grower and know for sure
when makeing crosses you can stand behind than never
to know. I have met many great friends on big pumpkins
and would never wrong any of them! Thanks Joe for the
kind words you are a great friend indeed ! Hope Every
one grows there PB in 07, John Van Hook

2/4/2007 9:28:39 AM

Waquoit Mass

most of the growers i know well, go to great lenghts to make sure they know where the seeds they grow came from.if theres any doubt they dont grow em. i think some growers dont care if the seeds are real or not .or just dont really want to know. some newbies especially thats why you stick to the guys you know for seeds period.

2/4/2007 9:41:42 AM

Mastic Beach, New York

lol after 7 years growing,i still cant tell the difference between 2 tan seeds

2/4/2007 9:45:09 AM

Sioux Falls, SD [email protected]

Its getting easier and easier to take dig pics of a seed
Its probably faster than writing numbers on them.
Add a random scribble on the seed and its tough to match
But
you'd need to keep records

I need to get a pumpkin with valuable seeds first :)

2/4/2007 10:04:50 AM

Long Island,New York

I have always traded seeds. I will continue to trade seeds. The key is being selective of who you trade with and being aware of the seed. Even being selective I've become painfully aware that you never really know and unfortunately you may still be taken, but the fake seed is very very rare if you do it smart. In light of the most recent "event" people should certainly think twice but to say "I won't trade" is like moving to Canada when Hillary wins.Should you get a seed suspected of being "bad", take the high road...take the "hit" and destroy it.Don't trade with that person again.(tell yer friends quietly due to slander laws). A person's name is all they have, so unless you have 100% proof try not to destroy the person's reputation...but don't let your friends get hurt either.Just my opinion....I will always trade with people I trust.

2/4/2007 10:55:03 AM

Central Pennsylvania [email protected]

Greenhousin, PLEASE post who sent you the fake seeds! Same for everyone else who recieved fake seeds.

This is a hobby/sport where we need to be able to trust each other. People sending fake seeds need to be weeded out! I believe that if the fakers knew that they could be exposed to the pumpkin comunity, they might think twice about being the rotten apple!

Karma can be your best friend or your worst enemy, I personally prefer to keep my karma as a friend as do many of the good people I've met here. Fakers watch out, you can't cheat karma!!!

2/4/2007 11:45:02 AM

ExtremeVegetables.com

lauralie1978,

I was making a joke there. ;)
Believe me, if someone did that to me I would post their name. It would be posed as being in my opinion which is far as I know you can not be sued for having, even if it is a negative opinion of another.
Even more so, I was making a point that fake seeds could be as common as people claiming they have received fake seeds. ;) Seems like a similar con game to me. Select the friendly grower who's seed you weren't able to acquire, tell him your story and hope he offers to give you the opportunity to grow that seed.

Shame on the Mess!!!!

2/4/2007 12:10:59 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

I don't think we could be 100% sure, even if we get a totally bogus seed, that it was the seed trader's fault. I think it's best to let the trader know about the seed, and maybe the trade can be negated. At least get their side of the story. Fixing a bad reputation can be very difficult.

2/4/2007 1:39:47 PM

Aloha, Oregon

What I have noticed is the people that have sent me fake seeds dont put a return adress on it and act like someone else in the letter.I got 2 fake 1502`s from somebody that claimed to be Ron Wallace.I told Ron and sent them to him.This can really ruin the genetics of the giant pumpkins its ashame.

Thanks!
Jordan

2/4/2007 1:55:29 PM

Jericho Vermont

This year was the first year that I started putting numbers on seeds and built a simple excel data base to let me know who i distributed the numbered seeds to. Not that my seeds are hot or popular. I do very little trading of other growers seeds, but I personally would not hesitate to go back to the original grower to get a verification of the seed. I have done this in the past and the original grower was more than happy to verify it as would I with any of our seeds. Not only the new grower but the original grower does not want progeny on there seed that is not correct.
John

2/4/2007 2:05:12 PM

Jordan, someone like you that pretends to be a girl that is new to the hobby, does has much damage to the honesty of trading has anyone, You should not throw rocks when you live in a glass house,

2/4/2007 2:05:47 PM

Post the names stop the BS,,,100% sure rarely if ever will happen. (Where are those WMD"s?)

"slander laws" Maybe on Judge Judy, wouldn't that be a fun episode might get a higher rating that RW and JJ on Martha.

One problem as I see it is that ANY seed that passed through a lair's hand would have to be put into question and we all know how much that would affect alot of "traders" and thier valuable stash. Keeping quiet and telling only your friends is a nice way to say you don't care about the rest of the community or the hobby in general since this will continue to happen if the cheats are allowed to run amuck.

I can only imagine the newbies to the site reading this on going post wondering about the treasured seeds they have in hand with hopes that they "are what they are". Hopefully they all came direct from the grower since with this stuff allowed to go on even some seeds donated for auctions might be tainted.

Hangum from the nearest tree I say !!!

2/4/2007 2:14:52 PM

ordinary,VA

I like to trade seeds.have made many new friends trading seeds.
When some growers send there seeds sometimes they send all of there seeds in one envelope. (Jim Ford,Rock & Shellie Rivard)just to name a few.and many times more than one of the same seed.most send a letter telling about each seed.
if you were to send one of these seeds to another grower more than likely you would send a seed in a new coin envelope.
so paint or some other mark on the envelope would not help in these cases.
John has the best idea to contact the original grower.

2/4/2007 2:22:30 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Bury them deep in the patch.....

2/4/2007 2:44:24 PM

Ohio

I like peanut butter and jelly sandwiches!

2/4/2007 3:13:27 PM

Knopp, Germany

there are a lot of words on this post, but not even one name of someone that sent fake seeds, what is a newbie to think? geez.

2/4/2007 4:25:00 PM

Knopp, Germany

to those of you that raised this topic now is the time to tell us who to not trust.

2/4/2007 4:26:59 PM

Auburn Maine, USA

If you believe you've been had, ask the one you traded with how he/she aquired the seed. Don't jump the gun and hang someone in public, that themselves may have been had. If the trader (or pumpkin Traitor) says it was direct from the grower, then check with the grower. At most it would only take a couple emails to trace it back to the scammer that says it came from the grower. Then ask the grower. Once you find out, then let people know. Use you're head. If the person is found whithout a shadow of a doubt, then we's gonna have ourselves a hangin. Hopefully they'll be to embarrassed to ever attend a weighoff again. You dont want to ruin it for someone that thought he was doing someone a favor

2/4/2007 7:30:20 PM

Central Pennsylvania [email protected]

very true

2/4/2007 7:43:29 PM

Auburn Maine, USA

thats true. Make an example of someone. People should just be sure, real sure, they're making an example of the right person....

2/4/2007 9:10:15 PM

[email protected]

This is not the first nor will it be the last time someone gets a fake seed in a trade.

Name the accused? I agree with randalls. Better be 100% certain.

Third party deals with seeds are like third party checks. Bad mojo. If you don't do it you don't need to worry.

Caveat emptor.

2/4/2007 10:45:31 PM

Ohio

I didnt want to have to go that far because I do not want to cause a roar.I got a 1231 from John maness which got it from Robb Hamp.When I got the seed I opened pack and looked at seedthe ink on the seed seemed dark.I emailed a friend a scanned pict of the seed.I emailed Joe asking if he could verify seed the seed number I got was 127.Come to find out another grower had this seed still in his possesion.I had Rob to got to side chat and John joined.He said he didnt know where seed came from I gave Rob a 1231 for last year which he says he planted.That seed is listed as a different number.I printed entire chat so I wouldnt have to say I said he said.He said he had another seed to send it back he would replace it with one he got from Joe.He said he had another one from someone else.I personally dont know who is at blame here.I didnt want to push it this far because I have alot of seeds.I traded alot last year and supposeidly made people nervous.I just wanted to get best seeds possible.I log each seed I get down and where it came from date and all.I have really been hit hard with this.I have made alot of friends here and I too want my crosses to be true crosses.New growers dont log seeds they just go hell bent after them.I have and never will trade a fake seed or even an iffy seeds.I take this pumpkin stuff serious and know others do too.But you cant lynch someone till you know who for sure is at fault.I didnt know how to reply or what to say so I just put it on the line here.I hope this helps if more is needed let me know.
Robert

2/4/2007 11:19:11 PM

Sophia WV

Earl 44 is me

2/4/2007 11:22:27 PM

Rhode Island

i feel for you newer growers. who can be trusted? what to think?

im kinda glad we got to the point in this hobby where we plant mostly our own seeds and only grow pollinator plants from sees out of friends original stock.

its kinda scarry.

2/4/2007 11:34:09 PM

Eugene,OR

Has anyone ever heard of PumpkinPost.com??? You send them your seeds, they package them, and send them out to people who want them for a very nominal fee. Pretty slick idea. All you have to do is send them seeds from the pumpkins you grow to participate. Right Ray?

2/5/2007 12:12:52 AM

Eugene,OR

By the way, you can get my seeds on pumpkinpost.com.

2/5/2007 12:13:42 AM

Frankfort Oh

OK,,,,,,,ROBERT i see you want to lie about this ,,,,,,,thats,, a crock of bull and you know it ,,,,,you sent me them seeds ,,,,,and thats that ,,,,i dont care what you logged or didnt log ,,,,,,,or copied ,,down ,,,,,i said that to get you to shut up ,,,,so i could talk to jhon ,,,,then you go and post this about me when all ive done is kept ,,your name quiet !!!!!!!!!your alow down lier ,,,,,,,i amitted giving jhon the seed in the first place ,,,i didnt lie about that ,,,,so if you want to go that route ,,,,,,what about the seeds i gave you for the 1370 last year and never got ,,,,you never even had one ,,,,cause i called jerry rose and he said he never gave you one ,,,,,,,i had you figgured out from the begining ,,,when you lied about the 1370 ,,,so dont come on here and act like i lied about something ,,,,you did from the beginning ,,,,,friends dont lie,,,to each other period !!!!!!so from now on just dont speak to me ,,,,,,and ill do the same ,i dont need friends like you!!! i pitty you

2/5/2007 12:31:52 AM

Knopp, Germany

Who is sending fake seeds Ray?

2/5/2007 1:13:35 AM

Ohio

Ray, Remember that email I just sent you?, hows that for a guess huh?,lol

2/5/2007 4:39:38 AM

Farmington, Utah

Hmmm, not getting the seed you traded for. I have heard the same from other growers. Made the trade but never received the seeds. Shame, shame!

2/5/2007 6:27:18 AM

Rhode Island

Many years ago the mombert 567.5 was the hottest seed on the planet.

It grew a lot of 700 plus pounders that at the time was as good as 11 and 1200 pounders are today.
The 567.5 was a pretty pumpkin,shaped for the most part like a big strawberry, with great orange color plus the sag line had yet to be of concerm.

Toward the end of the run i used to say to my son ron.
" Christ how many seeds did that pumpkin have?" . It seemed as thought they were coming out of the wood work.

In conclusion i think fake seeds have been around in smaller degrees for many years, its just easier to get information out to the masses today where as years ago messages for the most part only got out by phone or letters.

pap

2/5/2007 8:48:27 AM

Sophia WV

Trying to cover your teacks is fine Rob but the amount of trading you have done this year speaks for itself.I gave you seeds to help you when I joined the club.You picked the seeds you wanted out of my seed book at spring meeting remember.None were mailed to you.I have tried to be nice and felt sorry for you but that is over.The seeds came from you thats that.anyone that wants to see chat convo I will let them see.people make their own conclusions I have all my seeds logged and numbered and can verify can you?

2/5/2007 9:08:59 AM

Maine

Robert you have lied to me twice, flat out lies and I still have the e-mails to prove it. You lied to joe p, you lied to ray L, you lied to me a year ago. Still have never got that 1228 jutras you were suppose to send last year?...in trade. if it walks like a duck, and talks like a duck its a DUCK. I was in chat when you told ray L you had a 1231 directly from joe,and you would send it to him in trade for 1225. Well where is rays 1231? you got the 1225 right? then come to find out you told joe you never recieved his bubble and needed another 1231.. so who is the liar?

2/5/2007 9:16:56 AM

Maine

Sorry I had to use peoples names, but when I was new last year no one would believe me about robert lieing to me.. now it seems life has caught up with him.

2/5/2007 9:18:02 AM

Maine

Oh yeah My name is Devan St.Amant from freeport Maine, nothing to hide here.

2/5/2007 9:20:54 AM

Waquoit Mass

got some fake seeds from someone on this post myself

2/5/2007 9:21:04 AM

Sophia WV

Devan watch this Robert. No hard feelings on my end. Keep the 1225 for now and just keep me in mind for the future. Just dont trade it away, that is all I ask.

I cannot believe you got a fake 1231. How could you tell? I know Joe P wrote the number on all of his seeds. That sux!!! Who sent it to you? I just traded someone for a 1231 and I hope it is not the same person. WOW.
Now Devan you open your big mouth and Quack you little peeeon I sent Ray a bubble was lost in mail and tryed to send seed back but he said keep.I did the right thing you did the wrong thing running your trap when it should be shut

2/5/2007 10:05:00 AM

Sophia WV

In closing in this matter if you have a complaint talk to me or person involved first.Dont be fair weather friends I have never tried to do a bogus thing here or anywhere.Alot of people jumping the wagon when they should listen and check.I got one bad seed my first year when others got burned on here I was new and didnt know I traded seed to someone me and this person talked it out and handled it the right way.He is on this post very good fellow.Others who have got seeds from me never complained big growers.I show them verifyable.My seed list is available anytime just ask.

2/5/2007 10:11:42 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

Would creating a registered seed digital pic encyclopedia help out? I know cameras can add different hues to a color like taking a indoor pic with a setting of outdoors......I also notice that some growers use the paper coin envelopes, a staple, then cover the staple with the label. That seems to create a pretty nice "sealed" envelope. If one includes Initials or numbering over the label, it could make it difficult to reproduce and harder for faking..Several controls in place..One would also have to consider only one seed per lope..worth a thought to preserve our sport....I used the clear bags this year and will go to coin envelopes just for the sake of what is mentioned above. Not that my seeds are anything yet, but I hope them to be in years to come and I think if a grower wants their seed to be the most legit possible, taking all possible action is worth it. Perhaps a minimum seed verification standard can be developed here from this post to help "protect" our sport, or using the afore mentioned websites for seed buying. Maybe some material here for GPC to consider.......This is really my second year, I have learned to respect and love what is out here on this site, any steps to Preserve this, to me is worth gold........
Wiz

2/5/2007 10:20:11 AM

Frankfort Oh

OK,,,,ROBERT IM A LIER ,,YOUR NOT ,,,,,,YOU WIN,,,,,
BUT PEOPLE KNOW THE TRUTH !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
im not going to ,concern myself with this,,anymore cause i can go to bed at night knowing i did nothing wrong !!!!

2/5/2007 11:42:13 AM

Pocatello ([email protected])

I never knew what those staples were for until now, lol. Usually when I get some seeds, I'm like a kid at Christmas. I want to open up the envelopes and examine them directly. BTW, it's interesting how many white seeds I've seen from orange lines this year.

Anyway, this is a very difficult question without easy answers. I'm sorry to say that a digital pic encyclopedia would just make things easier for counterfeiters. Really, I'm sorry to say that, because I have the equipment and talent to do high quality macro photography. I could set up a site where you could get a full screen size image of the seed. You could see every grain in the seed coat, as it were. Think of how excited I would be to have one of every promising genetic out there. But...

2/5/2007 11:48:50 AM

Buffalo, MN ([email protected])

I made three trades for seeds I wanted and all ended up in disasters. I have met many fantastic people growing big pumpkins and now only use my network or the orginal grower to obtain seeds. If I can't find it, so be it, there are so many great seeds to plant. One of my biggest concerns are the raffles and auctions and I thik the message 1320 mentioned in this post should be taken to heart by all clubs.

2/5/2007 12:00:01 PM

Montoursville, PA

As I see this situation I think there is but one simple answer. Know thy seed supplier and trust thy judgement. Hardly anyone plants over a half dozen or so plants. Most plant only one or two.

Someone I know and trust 100% got burned with fake seeds of my first year's growth. The receiver contacted me and I firmly said those two are not mine. I also said if you wish to grow simply talk to me and I will replace them with the real McCoy.

I do not now seek trades or save large numbers of seed. A few friends send me their seed and I return the favor. On occasion I give away a a great seed that I know I can not grow. This pleases me and the reciever of that seed.

My suggestion is simple......just do not stray to far from the person who grew the seed and develop trusted friends. Then use the seed you ask for.

Trust the local friends you can see who can also advise on seed selection. As you develop real friends the base source of known grower seed will widen and you like most will have available more known good seed than you can grow anyway. I'm more interested in what you grew and how did it perform for you not what your seed bank looks like.

2/5/2007 12:15:37 PM

South East

Just wondering , how many off them fake seeds have grown a 1000lbs without anybody knowing, would mean that some family trees are false, and if it happens now ,it happended 10 years ago to. people wil be people, and people sometimes do dumm thinks. growers community is a cross section off society, and society includes the dishonost to, sadly.....

2/5/2007 1:15:42 PM

Williamsport, Pa.

seems to me if your caught doing this you should be thrown off this site and maybe kept from competing at weighoffs.. this type of thing should not be tolerated

2/5/2007 2:06:58 PM

Ohio

Dang, I did a search on this site for bad seed trades and seeds not arriving and guess whos name came up the most.

2/5/2007 3:09:17 PM

Wilmington.Ma.

Trust is a very important in life,and hard to regain if lost!

2/5/2007 3:10:20 PM

Somerset Ky

a person that doctors a seed is a theif and a deadbeat. its a shame people does this to others.

2/5/2007 3:24:06 PM

Mocksville, NC

Ray ,
this disturubs's me i 've been burnt a couple of times on bp,co,com
luckly i i have Mike Nepereny, of th AGGC Who corrects, me if i'm lost. Dechicho~ alais Robert Treadway you sent me a couple of 1180 Daletas last seasaon for a legit 1420, in then corse i burnt someone i cared about, you may have sent me the corrrect seeds, i dont know that for a fact, but this gentelman was trading for s 1260.4 Weir who in do care about, i'm just going to say it, Just dont piss me off
Honesesty, bids us, And if you sent me bunk seeds, God help you! Roger

2/5/2007 3:39:02 PM

Mocksville, NC

I might ad maybe!!!! you Robert correct me if i made a mistake

2/5/2007 3:46:08 PM

Sophia WV

Jump on the bandwagon Rog.I thought you left.

2/5/2007 3:49:24 PM

Sophia WV

Just looked at notes Rog no seeds were exchanged you wanted seed back and it was a 1332.i got mine back you got yours you CHANGED YOUR MIND.Heard of you doing that before hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm!

2/5/2007 3:55:25 PM

Sort of Sunny Sometimes, WA

Hey Rog, That may have been the legit 1420 I GAVE "He Who Must Not Be Named" about a year ago. Probably the only really good seed I had. The only thing I asked of him was to give me seeds from the cross he made with it. Guess what? He didn't grow it. Lucky for me, Jack was generous enough to give me another and I won another on top of that one. Fool me once shame on you. Fool me twice shame on me.

2/5/2007 4:03:24 PM

Cairo, Georgia

Boy this post is sure an eye opener for me. I have read and read and personally, I think it is a shame. My dad always taught me that a man is just as good as his word. I don't know about you guys, but coming from a mother who is trying to raise two boys, I have to teach them respect, honesty and honor. Respect yourself, if you don't, no one else will respect you. Be honest, it will always come back to haunt you if you aren't. Honor you family and friends,,,they are the ones who are going to be there in the end. I am very thankful for this information on this board. I have had many emails from people wanting seeds from Jeffs collection. Thankfully, I have very reliable sources to check with here. I have made many friends but I really hope this never happens to me. For those of you who it has happened to, just be kind enough to let us know. Rob, I will say this,,,you are so right. This is for the future for our children and I want my kids to grow up doing what thier dad loved most. Thank you for all of the information guys and gals..

Ally

2/5/2007 4:09:59 PM

Auburn Maine, USA

There was a topic posted on the 28th that Im sure most are aware of Titled "The Olympics of Gardening". There was much debate over this topic. One good point that was made about rewarding top growers with large sums of money was the dishonesty that results. This situation is EXACTLY the type of dishonesty that comes from 5 digit rewards and individual seeds selling for money in the hundreds. Money corrupts everything, the church, governments, heck its even split familys apart. Though I personally am for heafty rewards, I also see the cons to it.
Three years ago I bought 2 seeds from PandP seeds for 5 bucks. I couldnt believe I spent 5 bucks for two seeds (1167 Handy). I was later amazed watching some of the auctions. Thinking of it, every hobby is expensive, and this one has without a doubt become one. If you want the best you have to buy the best......
Larger rewards=more growers=larger pumpkins=more public interest=commercial interest=larger rewards=more pumpkins..........All this is a good thing. Im sure you veteran growers have noticed a growing interest in this sport/hobby. Situations such as this will become more and more common. There are ups and downs to everything. By far more ups.
In regards to making it more difficult to counterfit seeds; The US government has spent phenominal amounts of money making it difficult to counterfit bills. As long as theres money involved, there will be counterfitters. Greed.
Now, in the wonderful world of growing giant pumpkins, now theres mistrust. And greed. There are now a couple names that other growers will always wonder in the backs of their minds if the're a crook or not. What a shame this has become...........

2/5/2007 5:08:18 PM

Logan Utah

do unto others what you would have done to you

2/5/2007 6:18:04 PM

Sioux Falls, SD [email protected]

I think this site has a lot of trustworthy helpful growers
Lets not get paranoid of everyone

2/5/2007 6:35:58 PM

Greencastle, PA

Typically, when I recieve seeds in coin envelopes, I open the envelope to check their condition. In the event of a trade, I repackage seeds if I have multiples. I'm sure I'm not the only one.
However, I think that the best way to prevent trading fraud is by improving packaging. Packages should be transparent, permanently sealed, and containing a single seed. That way growers will now have to destroy the seal to check the condition or repackage a seed for trade. The only honest reason for opening the package would be to plant the seed. Uniform packaging by those guidlines, combined with a seed-identification system such as numbering or signing should be sufficient for preventing fraud.
Tom

2/5/2007 7:51:36 PM

Manchester,N.H.

I too had a bad trade with Robert were I never recieved the seed he said he sent. I also know of someone else that recieved a fake seed from him. I will not trade with him again

2/5/2007 7:55:02 PM

Ohio

Robert? Just how many fakes did you send out? or just how many seeds did you never recieve? I know of 4 growers that havnt even posted on this board (Yet) that you took for a ride.

2/5/2007 8:23:39 PM

Sophia WV

Shame no one has said a word till now.email and we will swap notes and dates

2/5/2007 8:42:05 PM

Farmington, Utah

I too Know of a couple that you did this to that have not posted.

2/5/2007 8:42:26 PM

Montoursville, PA

Dum 'de dum dum the vorm hath turned. I can hardly stand this. ]:o)

2/5/2007 8:53:15 PM

Sophia WV

Well guys post all you want I am done I know what has happened and thats that the wolves are out and I am only one against a bunch.I have always sent seeds out on trades that I recieved seeds for.END OF STORY I am done!!!!! To all you guys that know this isnt me and have been silent Thanks Robert

2/5/2007 8:53:40 PM

southwest MO

I think... Fool me once shame on you, Fool me twice shame on me sums it up. - Dave

2/5/2007 9:37:08 PM

Rhode Island

well, were theres smoke theres usually fire. sad but true pap

2/5/2007 10:07:16 PM

yup,,,it's a duck !!

2/5/2007 10:19:06 PM

Sort of Sunny Sometimes, WA

What's a duck?

2/5/2007 10:54:32 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

A small animal that does a lot of squaking and then dumps everywhere...

2/5/2007 11:12:53 PM

Owensboro, Ky.

From all the chat's I have had, and from what I remember from last year at this time....I would guess...it IS a Duck!!! Brooks, would be curious as to the results of yer search!!! Peace, Wayne

2/5/2007 11:48:05 PM

Dallas, Oregon

sounds like the ducks been cooked. a shame to see another example of the greed that has been creeping into this hobby. where have the days of grower fellowship and honor gone?

2/6/2007 12:51:24 AM

Knopp, Germany

It is not easy for me to say this, but all trades I have on seeds are as of this time canceled. I will not allow myself to get dragged into this mess. Understand that I do not have any proof of bad trades, I just don't want to take any chances.

2/6/2007 2:11:28 AM

Dchico (Robert)-- your post above when you used a different screen name is interesting /as Earl44. Why do you have the State of Ohio under the location section? You're in a different state aren't you? Why the need to put in a FAKE location when you could have left it blank????

2/6/2007 2:39:40 AM

South East

Ok, just found out i ,ve been had to. What is it with people and this childisch need to lie over some seeds?
Most up here are addults i believe? Did your momma teach you nothing(to all off you liars and cheaters out there!)
I for one wil be very carefull in the future, esspecialy whith high profile seeds! I wil check and recheck! so for all off tem out there tryin to cheet the cook, Beware, or i wil come for you in more then one way! To all who helped me to verify my 'beloved' fake, Thank you, i almost wasted precious soil......and no names, untill 100% shure up here, but i,m watching folks...

2/6/2007 3:00:30 AM

Frankfort Oh

hey ,cook ,,,,,lets be honest here ,,,,i gave you the seed ,,,,,in good faith that it was ,,,,,,a good seed ,,,ans as i stated before ,,these are seeds ,that was traded to me ,,,,,,,for exchange of good seeds ,,,so you havent been had ,,,,,,,unless seeds were exchanged ,,,,but for me to put a name for everyone ,i traded with would be wrong ,,,,,and i just wont due that ,,,,,and like i said before ,,,,,i wont be trading seeds again ,,,period ,,,,unless i ,know them personally ,,and i can back them up 100%,,,,lessoned learned here ,,,and i can only apollagize for the seeds i gave ,,,,and i already done that with you and jhon ,,,,

rob

2/6/2007 4:45:38 AM

South East

ok, its done.

2/6/2007 5:57:47 AM

Wood River, IL ([email protected])

This really makes it hard for the new grower. I received a few proven seeds from growers, that I trust. But I don't have plans to grow, I was going to use them to trade for seeds that I'm interested in growing. But with only one year of growing under my belt. We're sort of stuck in the middle not knowing who to trust, and not enough time involved to be trusted.

To feel safe the only thing that is left to grow is promo seeds, and seeds given to us by said growers. We don't have enough experence to know a fake seeds from the real deal. Are at least I don't.

2/6/2007 6:36:54 AM

Coventry R.I.

WELL, when I first STARTED, I MADE A TRADE with ROBERT, I GOT my seed and he got his, NO PROBLEMS
FRANK

2/6/2007 8:29:46 AM

Pumpkintown, SC

So, have we outed the problem maker or just the problem?

I have been trading seeds for years and years, running the gammit from being a newby, to having an unknown name living here in the South, to people being suspicious of my silly "monicker"(nickname), to people questioning my unending search for old seeds. My experience through the years has proven this to be an isolated problem with approximately 95% of all trades being with accurate seeds.

To my knowledge, of all the trades I have made, I have never been taken. But, more importantly, I have been lucky enough to meet many, many great and generous growers. If it weren't for the trading aspect of our hobby/obsession, I personally would have missed out on at least half of the overall enjoyment I have experienced through this site and throughout our sport. Now don't get me wrong, I have had a few trades that fell through, some not on good terms. With so much communication taking place through avenues other than face-to-face, and understanding that our group is simply a cross section of society, it is unfortunate but understandable that this might happen.

I for one will continue with my trading experiences. These bumps in the road of life, shape and mold the people we are today. There is no cacoon strong enough to shield us from all the irritating or frustrating events we go through. But at least they serve to help us better respect and appreciate our brotheren and friends we have and continue to meet. I look forward to continuing to meet more of you great people. Brian Fawcett

PS. Anyone got a 710 Dill '98 they'd be willing to trade :)

2/6/2007 9:19:11 AM

[email protected]

I am inclined to agree with Brian.

Seed Prospecting is what we have here. It happens every year with some cases receiving very little attention & others getting "outed". Oh, if these pages could really talk. I got duped early on but the person was soon outed by someone else. I gave the seeds to a family here in town & they had fun growing what I told them were unknown seeds.

It seems that most of the "issues" arise when a relatively new grower gets caught up in the excitement of prospecting for good seeds. I liken the situation to eBay where a great deal seems to be receiving little notice so the bidder doesn't talk about their good fortune lest someone else should notice & snipe the deal away. The reality is that the auction (seed offer) really is too good to be true so the tenured bidder (grower) wouldn't bid (trade) under any circumstances. But the "Newb" thinks he stepped in good fortune. Hence the "Newb" now has (or thinks he has) a moderately good seed but rather than growing it, soon trades it away for an even greater prospect.

When does the "mistake" take place? Who knows? It hardly matters because all concerned have dirt to clean.

There have also been those ugly cases where the excited seed trader trades a seed they don't yet have. Somewhere along the way a deal falls through & the reputation begins to falter.

As they say, "the rest is history".

2/6/2007 10:20:54 AM

[email protected]

Honor - Integrity - Honesty. You can always get another seed but we have just one face.

Here are some simple standards that should keep newbs out of trouble & will help you to establish the reputation of being a straight shooter. Call it "seed protocol 101" if you will.

>If the deal seems too good to be true it probably is.
>Insist on references when trading.
>Check the references every time!
>Second year growers don't have 1068's unless they know Ron & Dick personally or belong the the SNEGPA.
>Know the entire "chain of custody" & CHECK the references.
>Avoid three party deals.
>Work with a mentor & join a club.
>Don't ask a grower for a seed you want to grow & then trade it away - That is sooo tacky.
>If you must trade it away - ask the donor if they mind first. They probably won't but you should still ask & now the grower knows where the seed is. Remember "chain of custody"?
>Did I mention not breaking the "communicated chain of custody"?
>If you're not sure, ASK publicly. Honorbale people keep trade deals even if the whole world finds out & tempts them with sweeter booty. Those who would interefe with a deal or would allow themselves to be interefered with aren't honorable so they cant be trusted. You don't want seeds from dishonorable sources. So if the deal busts you're better off.

The best & oldest growers are usually also fine PEOPLE. The first year our club was formed we dicided to hold an auction to raise funds to finance the prizes of our weigh-off. I found a long-time grower who was willing to donate a treasure trove of decent seeds to us. He sent me his entire seed list & told me to pick 30 or 40 seeds that we would like to sell. After I finished picking he said to hold tight for a week while he called each one of the original growers to ask their permission. That act of trust was so classy....

2/6/2007 10:45:06 AM

Ft. Branch, IN ([email protected])

Well, I have been out of town for the past couple days....wow, did I ever miss out on a heated conversation.

I have participated in very few trades......but I know that I am still waiting for the 670 that I made a trade for last year that was "lost in the mail"

2/6/2007 4:47:44 PM

Long Island,New York

Little Bit...I re-read you initial post and it seems you were the guy with the 1231 and it came from Robert (as I understand). Now Frank has a fake seed and its from you. Where did that one come from?....just trying to put 2 and 2 together...Glenn Andrews

2/6/2007 5:18:47 PM

Minnesota

Wow, That's all I can say about this one.... I can tell that the long winter months are starting to grind on everyone.. Fake seeds!! Who would have thought that up? And I was worried about open pollination!
Remember when this was fun!!!

2/6/2007 5:36:49 PM

Sophia WV

I just wanted to reply to some of these alligations.For those that have traded and exchanged seeds with me that werent ready to hang me before they knew the facts.
Rob Hamp you have been telling everyone seeds came from me what happened on the new 842 bogus seed you are tyed too now.
Erin did you not give me a 1420 and say when I planted a 1420 to give you seeds.I have not planted 1420 yet when I do you will get seeds.
Nicole I sent you a 1097 last year it was a bad seed I ask Beachy about it told you it was bad told you to throw it away.You sent no seed in trade for it.So you lost nothing.

2/6/2007 5:41:50 PM

Sophia WV

Rog already covered 1180 seeds with you.You wanted your seeds back.No seeds Traded.
Stevenson your bubble was lost last year only one of the year out of 100 plus bubbles I sent out.
Dennis Mounce I have it on my list that I got your seed no reply from you till now that yours didnt get there.
I emailed brooks I got mad and said some harsh things for this I apologize.
Anyone else email me if you have a problem you will see how honest I truly am.

2/6/2007 5:46:37 PM

Sophia WV

Devan if seed didnt come why not just tell me I have a couple of those now your welcome to one.
I only had a total of 3 bubbles lost in mail one went overseas.But a replacement was sent.
The other the grower told me to hold the seed he sent not to trade it and I could send one when he needed it.We have traded before no complaints.I have been overwhelmed with this didnt know what to say or do.This may help those that truely know me to judge me fairly.

2/6/2007 6:00:10 PM

Sophia WV

One last thing i am being accused of every bad seed and trade going with no proff just the lynching.Other bad traders from not so distant past are on as if nothing ever happened.The problem is people jump on wagon without listening to all of the story just on parts.I would set back and take time to see what transpires then make a well thought desision not a hasty one.The good trades and swaps I had are not listed in this post only one person had the nerve to step forward and say hey I traded with Robert no problems here for that I thank you.

2/6/2007 6:19:27 PM

Farmington, Utah

Robert explain what the Earl44 from ohio is all about.

2/6/2007 6:22:53 PM

Sophia WV

Kenny The Earl 44 was my attempt to listen to some of the accusations.nothing bad intended everyone it seems has a couple nicknames.If this offended you my bad judgement sorry

2/6/2007 6:42:16 PM

Manchester,N.H.

I had replied to you several times that it did not make and you told me that it must have got lost in the mail. I know that if I ever traded with someone and they told me that they did not get the seed in the mail I would do all that I could to make it up to them and not just say it must have got lost in the mail sorry.

2/6/2007 6:57:48 PM

Sort of Sunny Sometimes, WA

Robert, why would you accept a seed from a newbie grower if you weren't going to plant it? That's what I don't understand. I felt pretty taken advantage of when I found out you had more than one.

2/6/2007 9:56:14 PM

Sophia WV

Erin sorry for that but didnt have another at the time you offered.Guarentee you will get seeds when i grow it this year.

2/6/2007 10:51:03 PM

Maine

I was not going to post anymore but it seems robert's memory is not very good.

2/7/2007 7:57:48 AM

Maine

Same here robert I told you many times the 1228 never made it, we even had a argument in chat over it.your line was "it must have gotten lost in the mail". Then a year after never getting the 1228 from you, you e-mailed me and and asked if I had a 1228 to trade and I said no thats the seed you said you sent me,, and you never replied. I have a very good memory obviously you don't. Feel free to send a 1228 this way it will go into trash if it gets here.

thats it I'm done no more posting on this, say what you want you can lie to me , you can lie to everyone else but you cant lie to yourself.

2/7/2007 7:58:47 AM

Sophia WV

Devan and Dennis email me [email protected] and I will send you a seed or seeds so that you guys will be satisfyed.I have notes saying they were sent none that they werent.I apologize for your hurt.

2/7/2007 8:37:40 AM

Little-TON - Colorado

Dchico, email sent your way.

2/7/2007 9:58:46 AM

Netherlands

Hi Robert,

I have never traded with you and will not judge you. As an English teacher I have been trained to read between the lines. A lot is said there. Here are a number of quotes you wrote. Can you explain?

Quote 1.
"Nicole I sent you a 1097 last year it was a bad seed I ask Beachy about it told you it was bad told you to throw it away. You sent no seed in trade for it. So you lost nothing."

- So you admit sending a bad seed? If yes, that is okay because no harm was done?

Quotes 2 and 3
"your bubble was lost last year only one of the year"
"I only had a total of 3 bubbles lost in mail"

- Do I average these two or disregard one of them or are you refering to different years?

Quote 4
"only one person had the nerve to step forward and say hey I traded with Robert no problems here"

- What does this tell you about yourself, your friends, the pumpkin growing community?

No quote

- You are trying very hard to appease everybody with great promises. Is this noble or is your conscience knawing at you? Both are possible. Just wondering.

Lastly

- If you are positive everything is a misunderstanding, perhaps it would help to improve communication.

2/7/2007 12:37:23 PM

Netherlands

Sorry, forgot one.

Quote 5

"One last thing i am being accused of every bad seed and trade going with no proff just the lynching.Other bad traders..."

- OTHER BAD TRADERS means you are one yourself. Is this what you meant or is it a Freudian slip of the pen? Or just awkward English?

2/7/2007 12:43:47 PM

Massillon, Ohio

LOL brad!!

this may be the best war i've ever witnessed (or been entertained by) on bp in awhile. this has entertained me thoughout the whole weekend plus 2 snowdays. i only trade in person with kelly-the-barbarian klinker. no fakes yet from him. :)

2/7/2007 12:46:31 PM

Knopp, Germany

Brad, if Robert answers he can explain, but does not say another word, he answered your question. Typical English teacher question....LOL

2/7/2007 12:58:35 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

I for one will start numbering the packages like Joe and several others do to maintain seed integrity including logging what and to whom it has been sent. This year was my first year in bubblemania, and I have sent easily over 75-100 bubbles out. Receiving many back. I thank you all for that. Since ColoradoPumpkins site advertises free seed for postage, I have sent out almost 40 to new growers alone and advertise them to come to BigPumpkins, I beleive in this site, its facts, its findings and its friendships. My seeds are not "TheSeed" perhaps never will be, "sigh". But in recently learning that a seed I gave a dear friend for Xmas to grow, in his lone patch, as his prime, is now looking to be a bogus seed, is very disheartening. I talk smack back and forth, all in good fun with my friend thru out the year, Im thankful for this post...... I look to only blame myself, but am glad that this post came out or it could of resulted in an end to a friendship. A friendship that came to be with a pumpkin seed in the first place. A friend I call each and every night to talk pumpkins....I live off of some of those long nights, talking foolishly about being a pumpkaholic. Shame on those who fake the seeds, you certainly would not of likened it to happen to you! For the sake of the pumpkinhood, the fakers should be weeded out of the patch. We will plant the bogus seed this year up at Jared's, and we will all see if it is indeed a 1173 Macari. Perhaps even that is not the best way to tell for sure if it was a good seed.

2/7/2007 2:34:44 PM

Maine

Wiz thanks for the e-mail you should post what you told me. It will help others see the light.

Devan

2/7/2007 3:02:36 PM

Montoursville, PA

Boy I'm sure glad this all transpired here. Had it been on a Marine base the dental office might have been snowed under with new plates to make. :)

2/7/2007 3:55:33 PM

ordinary,VA

LOL@Doc & Christy!!
this is good stuff

2/7/2007 4:14:24 PM

Kuna, Id.

I'm going to reread this, I see were Robert has traded seeds he was suposed to plant, lost seeds, and just not been very good to deal with.
However it seems the fake seeds keep coming from another grower who ends up with seeds Robert has traded to other growers and these seeds seem to be the fakes. I'm lost, what are the odds Robert traded fake seeds to other growers and just one grower ended up with the fake ones Robert was supposed to have traded.
I'm not say Roberts control and comuncation has been great but seems the one with a handful of fake seeds is not him.

2/7/2007 4:14:41 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Brad, ...Chill, you are an English teacher, not a psychologist, I've been quiet on this but I must say, Ken (ocrap) hit it on the head here, Roberts communication and method of trading may be questionable, but he has some chat transcript copied where the other grower in question actually admits that he was wrong when he said a fake seed came from him.
This is a perfect set up for every fake seed to be blamed on him, while I am not trying to justify what may have transpired between him and several growers, but everybody who craves an audience is posting.....
I feel that the handful of people that have a complaint with him should address him in a new post and most everyone else should stay off the field and make judgments after this is sorted out.
The grower who knows he lied about Robert...shame on you, but it's in writing bro, yer busted and if I were Robert I would expose ya, brad, feel free to correct my English and analyze, or you can be a gentleman and knock it off, this affects people reputation in a major way. Rog.....LOl.....well.........yer Rog, stop while you're ahead or before you threaten to leave forever.....again....
Go ahead and knock me to the floor for posting this, but I think he deserves a chance to explain himself.

2/7/2007 5:31:29 PM

canal winchester ohio

Rog.....LOl.....well.........yer Rog, stop while you're ahead or before you threaten to leave forever.....again....
.
......Nice Tom.....LOL!!!!

2/7/2007 6:23:36 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

Sorry.......
Last question....
If the Seed was originally faked by Robert and traded to Robb Hampp, then traded back to John Maness, who then traded it back to Robert......why would Robert bring all of this attention to it?....wouldnt he reconize his own fake? Wouldnt he try to hide the seed?......why would Robert bring light to a seed if he faked it? He would obviously want to hide it if that were the case.
Smells fishy....but once again, I'm not saying that either party is innocent or guilty, just trying to paint the big picture..

2/7/2007 7:07:38 PM

North Smithfield, RI USA

Rats in the corner !

2/7/2007 7:51:35 PM

Kuna, Id.

Tom been thinking that for the last few days, why would a guy trade to get back a fake seed he traded in the first place????????

2/7/2007 8:23:15 PM

Www.extremepumpkinstore.com

yep....... been bugging me too

2/7/2007 8:32:44 PM

Pemberton, BC

...like sand through an hour glass, these are the Days of Our Lives...

Chad

2/7/2007 11:32:27 PM

Deer Park WA

Still have 3 inches of snow on the patch, however the Pussy Willow buds are rushing so about 3 weeks before I can work the patch in preperation of planting REAL seeds!

2/8/2007 2:11:45 AM

Netherlands

Sorry for the misinterpretation of my post, Tom Privitera. I thought I was giving Robert a venue to prove that what he was typing wasn't what we make it out to be. Re-read the beginning of my post correctly.

Just goes to prove how important communication is and how easily misunderstood, causing major problems.

2/8/2007 2:20:08 AM

Maine

I am working things out with robert, to err is human, to forgive is Divine.

2/9/2007 8:26:16 AM

Dillsburg, PA

IMO anytime items get to be worth $$$ it increases the chances of dishonesty. $300 to 500 for a seed is way out of range of many growers. I understand that the $ is for a good cause but this kind of stuff brings out the worst in people. Seed demand and cost has went through the roof over the last six years on this site. I am for clubs/auctions but the increase in fake seed trading is a result of the high cost of in demand seeds. Anyone caught needs to be punished and exposed here.

2/9/2007 9:37:20 AM

Pumpkintown, SC

...the increase in fake seed trading is a result of the decrease in self-checking...IMO, BF!

2/9/2007 3:11:55 PM

Manchester,N.H.

I to have worked things out with Robert.

2/9/2007 10:01:25 PM

Minnesota

Wanted: Seeds, atlantic giant, anybody have some xtra. Thank YOu

4/15/2007 2:36:16 AM

Minnesota

Excuse me, I did'nt read the post closely enough.

10/19/2008 4:39:34 PM