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Hamburg, NY

The “Olympics of Gardening”

In reference to a recent thread about taking the breeding of the Atlantic Giant to another level. Some top growers are involved. Many others want in! What I’m concerned about is taking the competition to a proper level. We just saw a 1,500 lb pumpkin grown this past season and I feel that it was not properly recognized with a fitting award. In 1984 Norm Gallagher received a $10,000 USD award from the WPC for entering a world record pumpkin of 612 lb. It bettered the world record by 118 lb. At that time the benchmark challenge was to break 500 lbs. Then in 1996, Paula & Nathan Zehr broke the world record and the 1,000 lb. barrier with their 1061 lb. Again, awarded by the WPC with $50,000 USD for the barrier and $3,000 USD for the site award. A total of $53,000 USD! Twelve years from 500 to 1,000 lbs.; and now ten years to break 1,500 lbs. What was the 1,500 lb. award? Along the way the WPC also awarded several large prizes. I recall, Bill Bobier $10,000 USD and Joe Pukos $25,000 USD. Ron Wallace could have received $10,000 USD at Clarence this past October. Just what is the GPC doing to award a benchmark record? In the recent “world record 2007” thread started by Bill W., Edwards claimed that “The GPC has done some great things in the past 3 years. The aggressive pursuit of more weigh off sites under the GPC umbrella is good at a grass roots level. This is kind of like building infrastructure.” The infrastructure was built a long time ago by the WPC. What’s going on now is kind of like the “little league” development I spoke about in that thread. What are these great things the GPC is doing? Will the first 2,000 lber. also become a non-event? It’s time to stop thinking ‘little league”!

1/28/2007 5:46:12 AM

Hamburg, NY

Those interested in communicating about a major competition on October 6, 2007 with the objective of securing a major sponsor and award proper prizes for benchmark pumpkins please email me at [email protected].

There would be multiple sites worldwide. European and Asian sites as well. Site and grower involvement is a prerequisite. Can you imagine any major sport being unorganized like this? Lets get this under control before we reach 2,000 lb. with no major award. With proper planning and the right involvement it can be done.

Ray Waterman

1/28/2007 6:00:20 AM

As long as it is organized by a group that wouldn't want to keep the winning fruit and seeds for their own profit, it sounds great.
The GPC may be a “little league” development to you, but their end motive is not money, your post show that you sir are all about the money and have forgotten that many growers still grow for the love of the sport and commraderie.
Wasn't their a $100.000 prize offered for the first 1500 pound fruit a few years back?
Your ideas are good, your motives are all wrong.

Kickin

1/28/2007 7:50:18 AM

Western Pa.

Thank You Kickin!

1/28/2007 9:56:52 AM

NEPA [email protected] KB3QKV

If there is a large purse then say good bye to the neighborhood. I believe that there would be a strain on a lot of friendships that have been made and a widening of the gap that would never narrow between the heavy hitters and those of us that just try to have fun. A lot of information that is given freely may not tbe under a competition with winnings in the 10's of thousands. I thought this was suppose to be fun? I enjoy everyone in this web site, even those that I do not deal with directly. There are many people here that have helped me the past 2 or 3 seasons. Their knowledege will always be treasured. Are the friendships and the camaraderie here worth losing? In my humble opinion and this is only my thoughts here but I cannot even see charging money or auctioning off seeds. If I ever grew a very large pumpkin that impressed other growers. I would give some seeds freely to each and every person that has helped me here in bp.com that wold want them then if there were any seeds left, I would freely give them to all the others that would ask. I am sorry Ray W. You have made some interesting points but I cannot see much good coming out of seperating people for money in our community. It may sound good and look good on paper but money is a great unequalizer. Kickin I agree with a lot of what you said, good post.

1/28/2007 9:57:08 AM

Rhode Island

Ray

Ron had many opportunities to sell his 1,502 pumpkin (your offer as well ), but chose instead to take far less for the pumpkin so that in the end a new york city food bank and the needy people it feeds could benefit.

We also gave a 1,502 seed to support various clubs auctions plus all sngpg members who purchased our clubs recent seed promo and membership drive.

For most growers Ray its not ever been about the fame or money for that matter. Just a hobby that they enjoy.

Thats pretty much where the GPC is at this point as well.
Little by little we will raise the monetary payouts as we continue to grow but, its not now ,or ever will be, a organization motivated by profit or high dollar payouts.
Theres plenty of that to be won at local and regional competitions.

Our goal is organization,records keeping, a place (big pumpkins.com ) where information can be made available to the masses, etc.

Most importantly Ray is we have over 40 sites that enjoy and are loyal to the gpc.
Several additional new sites are already on board for 2007, plus we have added four additional regional executive directors to our executive committee.

Cash awards when looked at under a scope is for the most part only enjoyed by a small segment of the pumpkin growing community.
Its quite common to find the bulk of cash awards usually are enjoyed by that same group of experienced growers year in and tear out. Always was ,always will be ,for the most part.

As a organization the GPC and SNGPG are as conserned with the new grower/club as we are with the experienced ones.
Its never been about the money. just a group of people who all share the passion of giant pumpkin growing.

Dick Wallace

1/28/2007 9:59:38 AM

Eugene,OR

While huge cash prizes would be nice, for most of us it is about the journey rather than the destination. A good parallel example is the Hawaii Ironman. Although 1600 athletes start the event (all who have devoted a major portion of their lives to be part of it) there are only about 5 men and 5 women who legitimately have a chance to win the $100,000 first place prize. Most of the competitors are doing it because they love to do it, rather than for a shot at the cash.

1/28/2007 11:05:09 AM

Boulder County Colorado USA planet Earth

I agree with pap and vineman, when money is added, it quits being fun. I remember several yrs ago, there was a fishing tournament that had a $10,000 ?big fish. It was documented that people had been cheating to try to win it. I t became all about the money, friends became bitter jeallous of each other,
I swear it brought out the worst in people. People started saying that the certified scales were wrong. It was a night mare. It almost turned me off on tournaments.
I like the brotherhood in a sence of the pumpkin community. The fact like a little leagu hitter like my self.been growing pumpkins since 2001 but last yr was my record 453. The big leauge hitters, pap, Ron, Andy W, Frantz, Dills, Larue, Comapnion, Hugh, Steve z, Don, John etc(there are sooo many to name sorry) acctaully talk to us no bodies. How many places does this happen? very few is the answer.
Ya I like winning money / but I like ribbons and plaques. tyhey last longer than the money, Ron W showed true heart when he turned down lots of money for his pumpkin, But that just shows me what type of person he is.
If we put money in the equaation, I feel that A) no more free seeds of awesome genes. B) No more free advice. C)People will be at there worst D) You can kiss the fun out of this. E) lawsuits will be very much common place.
Well this is my two cents worth.
Capt

1/28/2007 12:15:22 PM

Hamburg, NY

"Its never been about the money. just a group of people who all share the passion of giant pumpkin growing." Dick Wallace
Sorry Dick, it is about money. When the world record holder's pumpkin is put back on his truck for him and told to leave becuase he was there only to take regional prize money. That's about money. I was not the one to make giant pumpkin growing about money. I've put many thousands of dollars and thousands of hours into this sport/hobby. I doubt if there is time in my life to ever break even, hawking a few seeds! And if anyone has done more I'd like to hear from them. Kickin, you don't have enough background to post a personal attack like that. And you don't even have the stones to post your name. Granted this is an open forum but a personal attack deserves a name behind it. If I recall the GPC was started to "properly distribute" prize money. Let's look back at that and not make statements like "The GPC may be a “little league” development to you, but their end motive is not money, your post show that you sir are all about the money and have forgotten that many growers still grow for the love of the sport and commraderie." Never take me wrong - I'm always for and have always been for the sport/hobby. I'd just like to see an award fitting of the first 2,000 lber. Ray Waterman

1/28/2007 1:48:24 PM

[email protected]

Current GPC goals not withstanding (indeed not even mentioned) we seem to be setting goals for an event that is still quite some time away.

2000 - 1140#
2001 - 1262#
2002 - 1337#
2003 - 1385#
2004 - 1446#
2005 - 1469#
2006 - 1502#

This averages to a 43.67# increase per year.

We're 498# away from ONE TON. If weights continue to increase by this average then we won't see 2000# until 2019.

If a publicly traded sponsor was secured today there is about an 80% chance they would be under a new board before we see 2000.

I'm not suggesting that a handsome prize shouldn't be sought now. But we have do have time to consider the details.

1/28/2007 4:02:00 PM

Georgia

I have to agree with pap and the most of yall definetly on this one. I dont think that there has to be a large cash award for growing Big pumpkins. It is now and should always be done for the love of the hobby. Big top prizes would probally turn real good gardners and growers away and leave to growers with the most money and resources..the good old boys would be left in the dust. Its about getting your hands dirty and growing a great vegetable not about getting a bunch of cash for you can buy a tiller with Bling..Bling. Its about the know how and the work...and places like Big Pumpkins wouldnt be the same.

1/28/2007 5:52:56 PM

Massillon, Ohio

i am not taking sides but must disagree with this statement, "Can you imagine any major sport being unorganized like this?"

pumpkin growing is not a major sport or will it ever be. 99% of america (my family included) thinks we are idiots and "reeeeeeeeeeeally need lives".

what do you think they'd say about this message board? people arguing about stupid things all winter and getting all mad at each other over stuff that really isnt significant in life.

1/28/2007 5:59:31 PM

Hampshire, UK

i am not taking sides but must disagree with this statement, "99% of america (my family included) thinks we are idiots and "reeeeeeeeeeeally need lives". "

I think 99% is a bit of an underestimate.... Louis Theroux would have a field day round here. LOL

1/28/2007 6:14:54 PM

[email protected]

I really don't believe this board was the place for this thread.
If your talking huge prize money, and the chance of winning it, then you have excluded all but 1 or 2 percent of the growers that read this. I as one of the excluded love it the way it is, and feel honored I can call the top few a true friend. No prize money out there could ever replace that.
Just my 2 cents
Eddy

1/28/2007 6:39:26 PM

Eastern Pennsylvania

For a huge cash prize, a well off guy who maybe doesn't even grow pumpkins could pay experienced gardeners to care for their plants and never lift a finger. Like an investment. How would you prove that a person grows their pumpkins themselves, legitimately? I have yet to grow a really huge one. If there were less weighoffs, I'd be screwed. Jim Gerhardt

1/28/2007 6:48:14 PM

Boulder County Colorado USA planet Earth

prizes for the first 2000 pounder.
A) 2000 beers
B) 2000 pounds of manure
C) 2000 free airline miles
D) 2000 anytime minutes
E) 2000 free drinks
F) 2000 spankings
G) 2000 paats on the back

Okay ya get my thinkin, we could have fun with this.

Like we could have sent RW 1502 congratualion cards. (his mailman would had keeled over. But what a great and funny prize.



capt

1/28/2007 6:51:54 PM

South East

Dont spoil the fun cristy! lol

1/28/2007 7:27:03 PM

Massillon, Ohio

sorry cook. ;)

malc M, if 99% is an underestimate, do you think 99.9999999% would be more accurate??

LOL.

1/28/2007 7:54:54 PM

[email protected]

The sad part about you Ray, is that this is all about personal recognition to be known as the PT Barnum of this hobby/sport. I will give you your Kudo's for being just that. You took something pure that the Dills were doing for little or no prize money, and made it into a prize venture. With 25,000 dollar awards, major sponsorships, among other things, you personally moved this hobby into a monetary venture. Top that off with you being the ONLY weigh-off that keeps the top 3 fruits (for your personal profit), you originated the "cash grab". The GPC has taken what you started, and managed to keep the contests together with ethical values, prize monies that are of nice size, but not so big it ruins the spirit of the "journey" the grower took to get to the end result. I guess in a wrapup of what I am trying to say is this: Thank you for the start. As for current, thank you to the GPC for allowing us to keep it fun while getting "some" cash back for our prize efforts. Lastly, while you pop up in here once in a while to claim your recognition, "What have you done for the hobby lately?" My suggestion to you is this, Accept your due congrats, thank the GPC for all they do, and finally learn that what you are doing is wrong (keeping top fruits with identical, if not lower prize monies that the GPC sites are giving out without keeping fruits) and get into the 2007 era of AG contests.

Not hiding behind my name either, this is Rocky Rockwell.

1/28/2007 8:47:51 PM

Boulder County Colorado USA planet Earth

wowsers

1/28/2007 8:53:01 PM

New Castle, Pa.

One time I reeeeeeeealy had a life, it was tomatoes!! then Christy sent me my first giant pumpkin seeds, All I asked for were some cantalope seeds, one year and three big pumpkins later this old hippie still reeeeeeealy has a life,its not just tomatoes any more its also pumpkins. lol Thank you Dieff!
Life is good!
Make love not war and grow pumpkins too!

Tim

1/28/2007 10:11:21 PM

So. Maine

Ray , if you were describing the scene at "The All New England Giant Pumpkin Weighoff" at The Topsfield Fair around 17 years ago where a grower from outside of the "New England States" entered his giant pumpkin I'm pretty sure all growers understand that "All New England" means just that... Maine , N.H. Vt. Mass. Conn. & R.I.
Been around awhile myself also , AL Berard

1/29/2007 1:14:13 AM

In 1992-1995 there was a prize of $100,000 offered to ant one who could break the tomato world record of 7.75 lbs. The record still stands even though prize was donated to charity because the record was not broken during the time the prize being offered. As for the theory that people will not tell there secrets of growing the biggest pumpkins. Those people do not give there secrets out now or at all in many cases.
The UK is perfect example many the giant vegetable growers are so secretive and fear full of competing they rather win a village show compared to a big national one.
As for info on growing giant pumpkins, it is possibly the most open of the world record giant vegetable categories.
In some the other categories there is growing info but not of the same quality or volume as there is on growing giant pumpkins.

Giant pumpkins are the third giant vegetable to get the spot light. The original giant vegetable that hit public was giant watermelons from 1880's to 1933. It even became tradition to send biggest watermelon to the president of The united states. The second giant vegetable that hit
big time was tall corn. Besides the 400,403 giant pumpkins did hit big time till the late 1970's.
Until Guinness book started listing giant vegetable records 1977 the sport of growing giant vegetables was very local with a few places here and there where people competed.

1/29/2007 1:17:20 AM

But if you think think there should be be big prize for the 1 ton pumpkin so be it. But realize that in ever category of giant vegetables at plateau is reached. It takes years for some to find a way to over come it. Look the way weight have gone up. they can not go up forever given our current genetic and the season length we will hit plateau. Soon since the real lack organization in giant pumpkins is in breeding. But considering growing requirements of one plant the cost of a concerted effort to break the next plateau when it is reached. Might take 70 more years.

What are arguing about is money and control of a sport none the less. Children are the best to compete in sports since they mostly play nice. Adults are another matter.

1/29/2007 1:29:11 AM

WAIT TIL NEXT YEAR I'm not trying to stir up any trouble hear, what you say about the "ALL NEW ENGLAND" weigh-off is completely wrong. In 1989 a Robert Gancarz from NJ entered a sound/healthy pumpkin for the 1989 Topsfield weigh-off. He entered it there because WPC rules (which Topsfield was part of) stated "open to all contestants" regardless of location. It was Roberts right to enter this healthy pumpkin in the competition. As it turns out this pumpkin was the heaviest weighed there that day and should have won first place, 619 pounds. 2nd place was grown by a Mr. Hackney at 614 pounds from MA. They disqualified his 1st place pumpkin because he wasn'r from a new england state , loaded up his pumpkin, and told him they would record the 619 as official for records but not reconize it at topsfield. The thought was he was there only to clean up (money)and there probably right but it was in his rights to do you / he did nothing wrong. If it was about only "ALL NEW ENGLAND" pumpkins, how come others were allowed to enter in previous years NOT from NE. Because they weren't first place entries that's why. I tell you I left that contest with a very bad taste in my mouth at the injustice given to Robert. He did nothing wrong and followed the rules. If Topsfield had a problem then change the rules that winter for the next year, don't disqualify a guy because you don't like the State he lives in. VERY UNPROFESSIONAL!! spectators were asking why the bigger pumpkin didn't win, it was a total joke. I must say I'm pround of the way Topsfield has recently run there contests. there is no excuse for what they did in 89.None.

1/29/2007 7:23:26 AM

Hudsonville, Michigan ([email protected])

Captain:

I bet Ron DID receive 1502 congratulation cards. (Also known as seed requests...)

1/29/2007 7:25:59 AM

Coventry R.I.

i,m the new kid on the block here, but i didnt no about this mr. waterman, but now i do, pap is the best there is out there, at what he does for gpc. and well said rocky r.

1/29/2007 8:10:18 AM

Knopp, Germany

All things being equal, I wonder how many of us grow giant pumpkins so that we can win money?

I started out growing pumpkins (small ones) so that my son could have something to carve for Halloween. My reserch on how to grow them brought me to this website. That is how I got started growing giants.

The most important thing to me now is that I have made friends from all over the world. I never would have had such an opportunity if it had not been for our hobby (sorry, I don't consider it a sport). Sometimes we argue and disagree, but in the end I for one would help any of you if I could, and I don't just mean with seeds, I mean I would help you as a friend would, and I think a lot of us feel that way.

Though I am a U.S. American, I live in Germany. Our hobby has helped me make many friends here, it has helped me to intergrate into this society. I look forward to seeing my European friends each October, we even had a patch tour here, first one ever, and it was real nice to share the time and talk pumpkins with people that I would have never known, if it had not been for this hobby.

1/29/2007 8:18:24 AM

Knopp, Germany

(cont)
Recognition is important, it gives us the approval that others know what it takes to grow a giant, and to have the luck to get it to a weigh off. I believe it is the recognition from our colleagues that is important, the friends that we have made, not the money.

I have spent hundreds of dollars on my patch, equipment and building up my seed collection. I don't do it to earn money, it is a hobby. This winter Heino and I had an idea to do a European VWO, for 2 reasons, first to help other growers here get seeds that they may not have ever had the chance to get, and second to build a commarderie here like many of the North American clubs have. Money was never a consideration. I opened my seed collection up to all growers that were interested, basically for the cost of postage so that they could get their hands on some good seed, I am giving the whole sum collected back to the European VWO, it is not much, about 300 bucks, but it is a small token to the growers that win, they will know that we appreciate their efforts, that is what is important.

The efforts of the WPC and the GPC are noteworthy in their own ways, but I for one will not ever decide where I go with a pumpkin to a weigh off just because of the money, and I bet I am not alone.

Ron Wallace has my compete admiration and respect for what he accomplished, I am not the only one that feels that way, and you can't buy that with any amount of money.

I also sent the Wallaces a bubble pack, but I did not send them a SASBP, I put my seeds and a note of appreciation and admiration in it, that was important to me, and I hope to the rest of us as well. Where else can you share with World Record holders so closely as we do?

Keep the money, I will keep my friends.

Grow em big, have fun and see you in chat.

owen

1/29/2007 8:18:45 AM

Esneux / Li�ge / BELGIUM

Owen, I think I have missed something (but I wasn't her often the last times)?!
"I am giving the whole sum collected back to the European VWO".
We have a VWO now?
Thanks for precisions.

Sophie

1/29/2007 8:29:32 AM

Maine

Well said Owen

1/29/2007 8:49:02 AM

Waquoit Mass

Being a 15 year grower and i hope well respected in the pumpkin community i have never had a bad word to say about ray. He was a part of growing this hobby to where it is today. BUT RAy please get over it . this is not good for you.move on if you had you might have been recognized for your accomplishments this doesnt help anything my two cents right to the point dave hampton

1/29/2007 8:57:54 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Owen...you almost brought tears to my eyes...Most of us grow these dang things because we enjoy growing them...Giant Pumpkin growing might be profitable for some. It sure beats cutting the grass.

1/29/2007 9:04:56 AM

Hamburg, NY

If nothing else form this thread we've learned that "rules are important". Thanks Rainyday for backing me up on that. Just want all to know that I have given my share of seeds away also and supplied the bubble packets and postage. I've sent out tens of thousands of packets for underprivilaged kids and adults. Not all the money goes to buying new cars like I've been wrongly accused of in the past! Just like to see a proper award for the first 2,000 lber and hope to be able to see it in my lifetime. Ray Waterman

1/29/2007 9:12:44 AM

Rhode Island

most growers who have been around the new england area since the late eighties know of the 1989 wpc weigh off situation at topsfield.

its ancient history now and besides most of todays growers could care less about what happened eighteen years ago, the split frpm wpc to gpc, etc. organizations fold and new pop up every season.

most including myself just like the hell out of growing giant vegtables and leave it at that.

the sites and clubs come into play just so everyone has a place to display and meet others of the same interest.we share information and in the process make friends with people they we never otherwise would have met.sometimes we even do good for local charities and special causes.

while its true at the competition level that the more money tou give out the more and heavier pumpkins you are likely to get, most growers will still be loyal to the club and/or fellow growers what brung them to the dance.

life is to short to hold any grudges.

dick

1/29/2007 12:02:52 PM

Hudsonville, Michigan ([email protected])

O.K. I'll bite. What happened at Topsfield in 1989?
Not looking to put fuel on the fire here, but a little AG history lesson here might help put the current pumpkin politics in context for the rest of us.

1/29/2007 1:32:54 PM

Billerica,Massachusetts

i was at the 89 topsfield weigh-off and i agree " ancient history" we need to move on.

Glenn Peters

1/29/2007 1:35:01 PM

Hudsonville, Michigan ([email protected])

O.k. I believe I have the main gist from Rainyday's post above. Must've been an awkward scene.

1/29/2007 2:35:47 PM

North Smithfield, RI USA

$$$$$$ I'll bet 99.9999 % of the top growers are deep $$$$$ in the hole !!! It's for fun !


George Duval

1/29/2007 7:00:52 PM

Napa Valley, CA

Greed, lack of communication and egos can sometimes make life and pumpkin growing miserable.

1/29/2007 7:18:37 PM

Montoursville, PA

Thanks Pap, Rocky, Al and others. I move the meeting be adjourned. Do I hear a second?

1/29/2007 8:26:06 PM

[email protected]

Meeting adjourned.

1/29/2007 9:33:56 PM

Rhode Island

second

1/29/2007 9:34:26 PM

New Castle, Pa.

Goodnight Mrs. Calabash where ever you are!

1/29/2007 9:57:55 PM

Leamington, Ont.

I like cheese!

1/29/2007 10:36:04 PM

Boulder County Colorado USA planet Earth

I like cheese too!!

1/29/2007 10:49:44 PM

So. Maine

OK , but is the fat lady gonna sing now ?

1/30/2007 11:18:14 AM

Boulder County Colorado USA planet Earth

MEEEE MMEEE MEEEEEEEEEEE

Doe Ray me phaw so la tee DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

1/30/2007 11:46:42 AM

Owensboro, Ky.

No amount of $'s could equal the friendships I have made thru this site...both in person, and online!!! $100 seed, $100 for ferts, $100 for pesticides, $100 for fungicides...friends are priceless!!!!!!!!!!! Peace, Wayne

1/30/2007 11:13:35 PM

ordinary,VA

Second!! Doc

1/31/2007 5:18:27 PM

Rhode Island

amen

1/31/2007 6:09:22 PM

Little-TON - Colorado

Awomen too

2/1/2007 9:10:18 AM