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Norton, MA

I hate to weed, and in the past I always got lazy, and it got pretty bad by the end. No matter what, I will do better in 2007, but I thought of something, and am wondering if it would work. I wonder if clover could be planted amongst the vines during the season. Ideally, it would make a carpet, and keep out the other weeds. The clover that usually grows in my yard and patch only gets less than 3 inches tall, and has a very small soft root system. The low height would meake it possible to be grown under the leaf canopy without interfering with airflow or sun, it would also keep the soil moist. Clover can also be compacted and deprived of light wothout dying like other similar soft plants.
If all that was true and perfect then I would do it first thing, but what do you guys think? Will it keep the soil too wet? Will it actually grow just as big and bad as any other weed in the ideal conditions we provide? Will our chemicals kill such a tender plant?
It would be so cool never too weed again, but is it possible?
Thanks, AleX Noel.

1/14/2007 8:41:55 PM

Anamosa, IA [email protected]

The clover you are talking about is White Dutch Clover. It is cheap if you go to a farm seed dealer, usually around $3.50 to $4.00 per pound around here. The problem with trying to establish it at the same time you are growing a pumpkin is that you will have some weed competition. It will be hard to keep the annual weeds out with pumpkin vines running all over the place. You could try establishing clover one year, with several mowings to knock out the annual weeds. Then you could plant your pumpkin the following year. If you are out in the country and have deer like I do, the deer will flock in to eat the clover and get your pumpkin in the process. That requires an electric fence. It does make a good cover crop if you are going to give your patch a rest for a year or two. It will put nitrogen in the soil.

1/14/2007 9:20:52 PM

Vermont

Won't the clover compete with the pumpkins for water and the fertilizers that we use. Aren't those a couple of the reasons why we weed to begin with?

1/14/2007 10:02:50 PM

Norton, MA

OK, sounds like thats that then. I didn't know whether the weeds would just push through the baby clover, now I do, and yes, the deer would cause me to buy a fence, and I don't want to do that.
As for the water and ferts, in my case water wouldn't be a problem, we have a well that will never dry, and I can put on as much as I need to, no matter how many weeds. I guess it would take some nutrients away though, if not enough to hurt the plants, then enough to make me have to add to the soil more often.
Thanks, AleX.

1/14/2007 10:23:13 PM

Auburn Maine, USA

Alot of growers prune every other vine which increases air circulation beneath the plant. Would Clover do the opposite?

1/14/2007 11:04:37 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Clover is often under seeded in many crops to create a living mulch. I do believe if you had an excellent growing area covered in a heavy clover a pumpkin would grow excellent. Thing is clover and pumpkins both like sun. If you planted both at the same time. The pumpkin is going to win in the end. Also with a good cover crop like clover the soil would retain more water and be healthier.

1/14/2007 11:43:44 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Tell you what I will try a few living mulch spots this spring. I will plant the same seeds adjacent to each other and see what happens.

1/15/2007 8:30:26 AM

West By God Virginia

I wouldn't think there would be any problems trying it out. The Native Americans had a planting technique called the 3 sisters. Maize (corn) was grown and beans were planted next the stalks so they could climb and use them for support. They also planted squash (or pumpkins) in the same area. The stalks and bean vines would shade the squash or pumpkin vines from getting too much sun. Companion planting...back in the day!

1/15/2007 10:35:23 AM

Nashville, TN

I often utilize clover + winter wheat during the cold months. This improves the soil and helps with erosion problems. To help with the weed seeds there are some options:

1. solarize soil. Then throw clover seeds on surface. Also add microbes back to soil.
2. Wait until right before you plant. Roundup area heavily. Then plant without tilling again.

Personally, I used paper feedbags with mulch of barn waste last season. Ended up not weeding the rear patch at all! Also saved on water, even in the 100degree heat! Did have some fusarium problems - so this season I'll be using clean sawdust and/or hardwood mulch over the top of the feedbags.

Look in my '06 diary for pictures of the large patch that never needed weeding!

1/15/2007 11:43:13 AM

Norton, MA

Shannon, I see what you mean about shade, but I browsed some clover types last night after I was on here, and there seem to be several that need some shade, and my vines (pruned every other) are generally 18-30" apart, but big leaves, so there's some nice sun in between. I think I'll also try some clover this year, 1 plant at least, maybe more. AleX.

1/15/2007 12:54:05 PM

Norton, MA

1 pumpkin plant, not 1 clover plant.

1/15/2007 12:54:52 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Burying vines through established clover isn't going to be fun.

1/15/2007 4:36:52 PM

Norton, MA

I envisioned the clover going right over the buried vines, the mounds on the vines have been one of the worst places I've seen weeds in the past, since you can't really pull the weeds after they're a week or so old or else you'll disturb the new roots. I'm not sure if this would be possible, but I assume it would involve either constant cleverly timed clover planiting, or sort of just bunching adjacent plants over the vines. In moist enough environments, I've seen the tap roots go right down to the soil with no dirt around them. I guess we'll soon see.

1/15/2007 10:49:53 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

planting anything that competes for nutrients during the growing season is the same as letting the weeds grow...why pay for something that grows wild....just because you planted it doesn't mean it isn't a weed to your primary growth....might make ya feel better telling people ya planted it to keep weeds out..but it's still competition during the growing season. I could be wrong...have to wait and see what the big growers do..pretty sure they pull the cover crops as the vines approach.

1/15/2007 11:36:13 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Even if you sow the clover after burying the vines the weeds will still germinate and compete better against the pumpkin than low growing clover which would be deprived of light.The result will be a mess.
Sorry to be so negative here lol,I'm a lifetime professional clover grower (farmer)

1/16/2007 3:20:54 AM

Anamosa, IA [email protected]

One way to prevent the weed competition is to use a technique that the tobacco farmers in southwest Wisconsin use. They have a steam generating machine that shoots steam into a low tent-like contraption to basically cook the weed seeds. Once they do this, thye have no weed problems at all. A former pastor of ours who owned land in Wisconsin had a tobacco farmer friend steam a patch before he planted strawberries and it worked wonders. In high school I worked one spring at a greenhouse, and they had a special bin made up to steam potting soil. If a pumpkin grower could do this, then it might be practical to plant a cover crop and the pumpkin the same year without weed problems. I just don't know what that would do to the beneficial bacteria in the soil.

1/16/2007 9:27:35 AM

Wi

I see a problem with this. Clover will attract deer. Deer hooves are sharp and will easily pierce burried vines.

1/16/2007 10:53:18 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

If you don't happen to have a steam generating machine you can always spread a layer of straw over the patch and put a match to it,great for disease control and adding potash just be careful not to burn your house down or start a forest fire!

1/16/2007 4:13:18 PM

Norton, MA

Wow, my mind gets changed every day. I think I'll take a hint from some local growers, and just put in the effort. Forget the clover, the deer would finish me off. AleX.

1/16/2007 4:29:10 PM

Montoursville, PA

What's wrong with a few weeds? Some of them send roots to China and move the value, of deep soils, to the top six inches. If upon pulling you have a tap root embeded in a Chinaman's Wig you know they are down deep enough. If you find an "A double scribble hole" embeded you know you left it grow two weeks to long. In this case the wig parts will be found about four foot ten inches further up on the tap root. This aluring fact will be found in How To Grow Giant Pumpkins VI or VII. The rest of the body will stay in place. After all a simple root can just do so much.

1/16/2007 9:18:02 PM

Norton, MA

Haha, I don't want to be catching any people with the weeds anyway, but I had a forest 7 feet high last year in a patch that I just abandoned after pollination time.

1/18/2007 7:04:39 PM

Montoursville, PA

Wow.........think of that diversity of values. No mono-culuture involved there. That is Mother Nature at her best. Only man wants nice clean bald soils. Chop, cut with any method and till 'er all in. Mulch the Bejesus over all to smother em and utilize old leaves if possible. Sets up a mimi composting machine about a quarter of an inch thick for all next summer. Pull or tramp down the few that come up. Cover them with some more mulch. You will be amazed at what happens.

1/18/2007 9:55:26 PM