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Michigan

From a previous post:
"It is known that certain fungal species in the genus Trichoderma feed on mycelium and sclerotia of Sclerotinia minor. Sclerotium rolfsii and Rhizoctonia sp. All peanut fields in Texas tested to date have a natural population of Trichoderma. For several years, tests have been conducted in Texas using corn meal to stimulate Trichoderma development as a way to control the major soilborne disease fungi. When yellow corn meal is applied to fields in the presence of moist surface soil, Trichoderma builds up very rapidly over a 5 to 10 day period. The resulting high Trichoderma population can destroy vast amounts of Sclerotinia, Sclerotium and Rhizoctonia. "

I wonder, will using corn gluten produce the colony of Trichoderma in the same manner that corn meal will? I spread 80 lbs of corn gluten with my fall patch prep and am wondering if I should also incorporate corn meal? And if so, what would be the ideal time? We are finally getting lots of rain, highs in the 50' to 60's now and lows in the 30's to 40's. I believe that my patch last year was infected with Sclerotinia which is the reason for my interest. I have moved to a new patch, but it is still within 100 feet from the infected soil.

Thanks!

~Jessica

1/5/2007 10:59:47 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Corn Gluten has herbicide like qualities often used by organic gardeners. Corn meal will be alot keeper to spread.

1/5/2007 12:01:56 PM

Montoursville, PA

Jessica.........ten pounds of corn meal spring and fall both is ideal on a 1000 sq. ft. patch. Your first application if this spring may be 20 lbs. There may be no need to apply more after two or three years. I do not like the idea of Corn Gluten. It works by attacking the first hair roots appearing. It may be fine on established lawns however I feel the pumpkin plant is dependent upon a gazillion new hair roots appearing daily.
....Back to corn meal. Good stuff! Your knowledge is correct. In a more general sense corn meal feeds and supports your fungal community. Then the biological ballances do the rest. End result...good guys are strenthened seemingly more than the bad guys. Good prevails.
You get a modest amount of slow release nitrogen with each
application. Over doing the application will not improve the patch. Like using Molasses just give you natural patch a little help or encouragement to improve.

1/5/2007 12:34:37 PM

Michigan

Thank you gentelmen! Ok, so what I'm taking from this is that an additional application of the corn meal would be needed in the spring in order to obtain the beneficial fungi that I am seeking...corn gluten will not provide that. Easily done. I originally used the gluten for the natural herbicide qualities hoping for a less significant weed problem than what I experienced last year....hope that I haven't done something that will be harmful to my plants instead!! YIKES!

~Jessica

1/5/2007 2:53:09 PM

ExtremeVegetables.com

Another benefit of using corn meal in your garden is that earthworms LOVE IT.
I have an old friend who raises worms to fill bait machines, Corn meal is all he feeds his worms and the population just explodes.

1/5/2007 2:54:09 PM

Montoursville, PA

Yep that's true too. Jessica any Corn Gluten you placed earlier should be all gone and consumed, by your bacteria.
I have played with Corn Gluten and am unable to say if it helped me or not. That was on a portion of my lawn. I use no chemicals into the soil any place on my property. I use teas which in my opinion makes stronger plants...in this case grass. I go after the white grubs with Milky Spore Disease and mow at four inches high returning all grass as mulch. I could see no difference in the treated section after using Corn Gluten two years. Conclusion....see no difference worth the effort discontinue the practice. I did.

1/5/2007 3:35:07 PM

Omaha, NE (N41-15-42 )

I noticed that the corn meal at the grocery store says degerminated and enriched. I understand what that means, but does it impact the effectiveness?

1/5/2007 9:06:08 PM

southwest MO

In the ethnic section of our wal - mart there is a corn meal that the ingredients are white corn and lime, thats it. This is what I use. Dont know if there is any difference between white and yellow??

1/5/2007 9:12:07 PM

Wood River, IL ([email protected])

Nice info,keep it coming!

1/6/2007 5:08:36 AM

Dummer Twp - Ontario

I assume both corn meal and corn gluten meal start out in the same raw form "CORN" So what is done and/or added to corn gluten meal to make it react differently than corn meal which I assume is just ground down corn. Corn gluten meal appears to be more bulky. Lets hear it from all you corn experts please.

Thanks

1/9/2007 6:23:15 AM

http://www.gluten.iastate.edu/

1/9/2007 6:31:34 AM

Montoursville, PA

Many feed mills sell cornmeal that is not all doctored up or processed. They may confuse you further by having three grades. I like the extra heavy. Takes it longer to be converted and it delivers the nitrogen longer and more even over any given time period.

If you live near an operating real stone mill you can only get the heavier grade unless they cheat and process for the medium and fine grains.

1/9/2007 8:41:17 PM

Montoursville, PA

I lifted this from an Iowa State University study:

The CGM reduces germination of many broadleaf and grass weeds (Bingaman and Christians, 1995). The CGM allows seedling shoots to emerge, but inhibits root development. After a period of water stress, the seedlings wilt and die because they do not have an adequate root system.

I don't think I care to give up any emerging hair roots even if a low percentage of the total.

1/9/2007 8:50:25 PM

maine USA

Doc, how long must you wait after tilling in the corn meal can you plant? Also, do you need to spray the patch with molasses are putting in the corn meal? thanks KathyT

1/9/2007 11:51:20 PM

Montoursville, PA

Spring work in general should be done pretty much three to four weeks ahead of planting. However corn meal can go on or in anytime. I put mine on and enjoy watching the worms and the rain take it into the soil. I just finished putting my half dose on this week Jan 10th. The second application will go on at the conclusion of early spring tilling. The worms and rain will take it in as will my light hoeing in the patch. It might be worth considering mixing half the application with alfalfa meal and using it as the plant develops as a side dressing or a thirty day follow up fertilizing as well.
....If my conditions are such that I elect to do no spring tilling all applications go onto the patch ahead of the
mulching.

1/10/2007 11:05:09 AM

maine USA

Thanks as always Doc. KathyT

1/10/2007 12:24:02 PM