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San Jose [email protected]

I am only about 50lbs at about day 25 with a 1074 Brunst an unproven seed I know, BUT I am only getting about 4.5 lbs a day...My original plan was to go totally organic, so I dug a big hole and put mushroom compost and horse manuer in the mound, I have given fish,molasses, kelp, only about 3 times foliar so far, and one drench a few days ago, I also spray neem, with baking soda about once a week, THATS IT. I water with soaker hose every other day for a couple of hours. I was watering every day for the first while.


After reading LOTS on this site, the only thing I can think of is that I watered too much early on, and maybe still. I am thinking of taking a pitch fork and plunging into the soil around the plant( assuming it is oxygen deprived)

What is the longest you go between waterings ?

ANY suggestions??????????

HELP

Thanks

Gary

8/9/2005 11:26:14 PM

Elk Grove,Ca USA

Gary
I water everyday, over head here in Ca central valley . 13,000 sq feet gets 1500 gallon /day.

8/10/2005 2:18:59 AM

[email protected]

Gary

Don't dig the patch up. If the roots are compromised by an anaerobic condition (too much water), then ripping them up more now won't solve any problems. If a pathogen is present, the pich fork could spread it around.

Try using a coring tool or trowel to dig a couple small exploration holes down about 10-12 inches. Start a few feet or so from the crown.

What do the roots there look like? White & fleshy or brown & soft?

What does the soil smell like? Sweet & earthy or foul & pungent?

Steve

8/10/2005 5:00:46 AM

San Jose [email protected]

Steve, ok, I did a few samplings around the plant, the most telling one is where I put the mushroom compost on April 1,,, I did a core sample, the first few inches, were mostly composted horse manuer, lots of roots, the rest of the way, to the clay bottom still smells like mushroom compost (pee yew) AND NO ROOTS, I must assume the plant wants nothing to do with rotting things to grow in.
The other test holes were about the same, 4" of roots/horse poop, and then the clay, a few roots but not much.

I think, being the roots are so shallow, I need to water it more,,,often, but less volume.

What do you think?

Gary

8/10/2005 10:50:26 PM

Follansbee, Wv

Compost should not smell bad. The likely problem is an anaerobic condition brought on by overwatering. By digging a hole and filling it with compost you created a perfect environment for this. The water you apply cannot penetrate the clay surrounding the compost very quickly. This would leave the lower level too damp, depleting the oxygen supply. To avoid the lack of oxygen and excess moisture, the roots have stayed shallow. Another problem that digging a pit can cause is heavy top level leaching. In other words, the nutrients in the upper levels can leach into the lower levels over time leaving little for the shallow roots to use. With little to no clay molecules for many for the nutrient ions to attach too, they simply wash away. Leaching is a common problem in composting operations, and doesn't stop just because the compost was placed into a garden. There has to be something available for the nutrients to hang onto, and pure compost just doesn't have it.
If you have compost available, you may try making tea with it and using it to water with. This will put some of the lost nutrients back into the top layers. Another idea would be to take clean topsoil and spread several inches or so around the top of the pit. This may allow some of it to penetrate into the compost and help it hold your goodies in place. It might also allow the roots to spread more by growing up some, since they won't go down.

8/11/2005 7:27:52 AM

[email protected]

I gree with Monty. Let the soil dry out a bit. A little drought stress isn't going to stop an AG as fast as root disease will.

Bad smells come from anaerobic conditions. Thus no roots down there to rid the area of the surplus water. This fall make sure to till into that compacted layer & bring it up to breathe.

8/11/2005 10:06:56 PM

San Jose [email protected]

Thanks guys, the smell is EXACTLY what is smelled like when I put the mushroom compost in april, I think mush compost is fresh manure and hay. I started some compost tea tonight and will apply sunday night.

I have an air compressor, I could inject air into the soil/manure,,,any thoughts on that?

How long can I, do I dare, stop watering, what are the signs of drought stress?

Thanks

GAry

8/11/2005 10:48:41 PM

Midwest

Gary:

Injecting air into the soil may be plausable. But, I would think the air would need to be diffused throughout the anaerobic zone. If you could figure out a way to diffuse the air, maybe. Yet, when you put something like a hose down there, water will flow into the space also. Here's a suggestion that some will say is crazy. I got this from the agronomist at AgriEnergy, Inc. and have been using it for the last two weeks. In a milk container filled with 1/4 whole milk and 3/4 water, open a pin hole in the bottom or open the cap slightly. Put the container next to the stump and use it as the primary water source for your tap root. For your secondaries,etc... water along the vine roots lightly. You will avoid drought stress this way and the whole milk will have a positive effect on the plant. If you feel using whole milk is a wives tale, then just eliminate it. But, the container technique should be useful. I have been using this technique (whole milk also) on and off every 3 days. Since I started, I pollinated 13 females, one aborted.
Greg

8/12/2005 12:13:53 AM

Midwest

By the way...

I dug a pit under my plant almost exactly like you did and filled it with mushroom compost, cow manure and peat moss about 1.5 ft deep. I wish you had been on the phone with me and the agronomist from AgriEnergy, Inc. We discussed how deep air penetrates soil and the conditions excess water creates. His conclusion was exactly the same as Steve, Gary and Monty's. He suggested that I also dig down to see if the roots were growing deep into the 'pit'. I haven't done that for fear of losing some but, I imagine I would have found them avoiding that area.
I hope you are able to correct the problem.

8/12/2005 12:22:22 AM

Montoursville, PA

Yep.........the above nearly all makes sense. The opinions are solid. To much undigested elements, of compost, with to much water sounds good to me.

8/12/2005 9:20:40 AM

Follansbee, Wv

With or without the milk, I really like the idea of drip containers! I could use something like that beside every tomato and pepper plant in the garden. Thanks for that great idea Greg!

8/12/2005 1:38:35 PM