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Kansas City, MO

The Main on my 1420 keeps twisting as it grows often leaving a big leaf stem on the bottom or worse, a secondary. I just keep using my hangers and bamboo to try and keep it straight. Next day, it's twisting again. Thoughts appreciated. Greg

6/12/2005 9:56:48 PM

Springfield, MO

This would be a genetic defect, and probably doesn't bode real well, although probably not as bad as a true double vine or a flat vine. -- Chris

6/12/2005 11:51:59 PM

Puyallup, WA

Greg,
When that happens to me, I will put a verticle support
(rebar or wood) next to a leaf and use a wire tie to hold the leaf upright. Just an idea.

6/13/2005 1:15:18 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

I had a 1074 Calai spin on me like this two years ago. I think I caused it when I turned the vine back away from the direction it was headed. Then from then on it did not know what side was up. I staked it and pruned it. It finally staightened up and became a really nice plant.

6/13/2005 10:21:23 AM

Commack, NY

genetic defect? the plant that grew my 1030 twisted like that. yeah it was a pain, but well worth it. I'll take any genetic defect that results in a 1000+ pound fruit!

6/13/2005 2:12:48 PM

Springfield, MO

Why in the world would anyone think that it was the spiral nature of the vine was what resulted in Farmer Scott's 1000 pounder? I'd suggest that had the same plant been a non-spiral vine it might have been capable of a 1200+ pounder. I'd challenge anyone to demonstrate that spiral vines are a desirable genetic trait, or that they contribute positively to pumpkin fruit weight. Any inherited plant trait that complicates management of the plant is likely to result in lower weights and is a genetic defect. Given two plants from the same seedstock, I'd keep a straight vine over a spiral any day. -- Chris

6/16/2005 3:58:39 PM

Utah

Doc,
I don't think anyone suggested that because it was a spiral vine that it was better than a straight vined plant or that it incresed Scotts weight... it just came with that seed/plant ...

Scott said it was a pain ... i.e. he'd rather have a straight vined plant. I'd rather have a straight vine over a spiral too.

But his spiral vined plant did give him his biggest fruit ever ! So I don't understand why you state that it negatively impacted his pumpkins weight ? or that in general they the will negatively impact fruit weight ? sounds like your getting a little defensive here because of Scotts reply.

Greg asked for comments on them ... and Scott gave a factual first hand experience reply.

So I'd challenge you or anyone to demonstrate that a spiral vined plant does not contribute positively to a pumpkins weight.

Personally I don't think they are a factor one way or the other ... but I don't know.

The truth is that nobody knows at this time because there is no data on them... so if you have one, and it is a seed you with great genetics that you picked to fill one of your few spots in the patch, why not go with it and see what it does ?

repectfully,
gordon

6/16/2005 5:49:48 PM

Montoursville, PA

Ditto Gordon's comment. The larger percentage of us have room for just a few plants...like about two. By the time we might like, to rip one out it has become family and nearly always gets, to stay unless it self destructs beyond any possible production.

Personally I would baby sit a pretzeled flat and split vine if there was a nice pumpkin potential, on the downwind side.
If it was, in the middle, of the pretzel I might quit.

6/16/2005 8:19:36 PM

New Hampshire

Think about rope, it is stronger because it is twisted. Perhaps a twisted vine holds a fruit better. I am a dumb newbie, but I do have a cup of brains left

6/17/2005 1:29:33 AM

Montoursville, PA

Well the few you have left might be warpped and genetically deprived. ]:o)))

6/17/2005 10:56:58 AM

Springfield, MO

Granted, Scott could have MEANT something different, but what he SAID was that he'd "take any genetic defect that RESULTS IN a 1000+ pound fruit." [my caps] That IS a cause-and-effect statement.

I am not sure how to state my point any more straightforwardly that when I said "any inherited plant trait that complicates management of the plant is likely to result in lower weights and is a genetic defect." Spiral vine is obviously not a neutral trait like seed color, because it requires increased active management. An analogy that comes to mind: There are a few blind people who have become medical doctors, but their disbility did not contribute to their success. Their blindness had to be considered and managed every step of the way, despite whatever other positive qualities they possessed as people. Blindness didn't prevent their success, but it didn't facilitate it.

Maybe Farmer Scott managed the spiral vine so well that he got all that was possible out of the plant. If so, then maybe he couldn't have produced a 1200 pounder with a straight vine. But if that is true, then (like a blind physician) he would be the exception. Unless there are a bunch more 1000+ pounders out there grown on spiral vines that no one knows about, clearly the burden of proof would be on those who would contend that a spiral vine is a positive trait rather than a negative one. Personally, I don't have the space or time to waste on one, but I wouldn't suggest someone pull one if that's their only plant either. It will make life more difficult, and a plant with a more difficult life is less likely to grow a fat and happy pumpkin ... but it's not impossible. However, without more evidence than Scott's one experience, I sure wouldn't advise anyone to pull a healthy plant to keep one with a spiral vine.

-- Chris

6/17/2005 7:56:20 PM

Commack, NY

yikes! i think we're looking at a matter of semantics here. Im still not convinced that a vine that spiral's is a genetic defect. maybe it was the positioning of the plant in relation to the rising and setting of the sun? Maybe it was something that i added to the soil that adversely affected the vine?. Maybe it was something that i sprayed on the plant? who knows! It could have been a million different things. Sure i had to manage the daylights out of it, but so what! it was well worth it. Regardless of the current world record, 1000 pounders, aren't exactly an easy feat, it takes work. If you have to deal with a spiral vine, deal with it, for me, it was worth every ounce of my time. Am i saying that a spiral vine had a positive impact on my pumpkins weight? No. Am i saying that a spiral vine negatively impacted my pumpkins weight? No. what i am saying is that my 1030 came off of a pumpkin that had a spiraled vine, and who care's if it spiraled, no ones looking at my plant come weighoff day. I have a plant right now that's starting to spiral, am im thinking "definite 1000 pounder"? nope, but am i thinking "this plant sucks, it will never produce anything decent and im going to yank it?" nope!

6/21/2005 9:19:21 AM