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Knopp, Germany

i think that one of the qualifiers for an AG weight should be that the grower was the one that germinated, pruned and weighed there AG. in other words, if ya got a seedling from someone else, then there should be some sort of an asterisk.

fire away.

6/11/2005 2:18:11 PM

Massillon, Ohio

this is a funny one because one year my boyfriend couldnt germinate a watermellon on his own, and i gave him a plant, and then he beat me with it. i thought that shouldnt count.

now i am doing the same thing but someone else bailed me out. LOL. i have a cheater 1432 i got from nic welty when my 846 jutras died, and 2 cheater watermellons to replace mine that died. is that unethical?? i dont think so at all. welty is not going to be out there with me pruning it and weeding it and watering it and fertilizing it all summer. i am growing it now.

owen, what goes around comes around; you might grow a 1500 pounder one day in a spot where your original plant died, with a plant a friend gave you to bail you out. i sure changed my tune when i became the bailee. :)

P.S. i know this could cause a clone discussion. because people grow clones alot and they care for them all winter, but should that not count as fruits of their own?

6/11/2005 2:30:13 PM

NEPA [email protected] KB3QKV

Not a bad idea and I do not mean to debate you but what about the weather we had so far in northeastern US this year. With all the screwy weather we had this spring so far, it left a lot if not most, of us growers scrambling in this area. So what would be the difference if I or someone else started the seedling. Anyone can start a seedling and isn't that what we are partially here for to help each other when we need help? Just another point of view.

6/11/2005 2:55:27 PM

Knopp, Germany

your original thought was correct Dieff, that should not have counted. all of the work you mention is noteworthy, but for the record, i am still the opinion that it should be from seed to scale.......


rootbeer...i have had a bad weather start also, that is why we do backups. i will not grow one of significance this year, but, whatever i grow will be from seed to scale, by my hand.

6/11/2005 3:15:13 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

Yikes! next thing we Know he'll be posting Baltimore/Yankees scores!!..LOL....Point well Taken Owen but if you had a starting year like mine ...I'd borrow one from the Poor Dog just to have a plant growing..wouldn't mind the asterisk at all!!
You GrowEmBig! Chuck

6/11/2005 3:48:48 PM

I think if you sincerely made an attempt and had some sort of failure with your seeds, then it's ok to get backups from another grower. But not even trying to start your own seeds, or buying them from a nursery or something, I don't think that's right.
Most people can germinate a seed by throwing it in some dirt. That's the easy part. All work after that - pruning etc. until the weighoff should be done by the grower. There are so many exceptions though! When I was gone from home to go to the Ohio Patch Tour last summer, my brother turned the sprinklers on and off for me. Does that mean it's not my pumpkin? In the fall when I go to college my parents make sure the pumpkins are warm and dry if it rains. They call me if they see any stem or rot problems. Does that mean it's not my pumpkin? There are a few people on this site that are going on vacation and having pumpkin "babysitters" while they are gone. There are people that have to work during the morning hours so another person has to pollinate for them. How far do we want to go with this? I get males from Shannon and April sometimes, does that mean it's their pumpkin too because they grew the plant that had the male flowers I used? There has to be some guidelines and limitations if we're gonna put this idea to use - otherwise I think every pumpkin grown would have some sort of mark by it! Good post Owen.

Brig

6/11/2005 4:16:07 PM

Md/ Usa

how are you going prove it.

6/11/2005 4:23:04 PM

Massillon, Ohio

that is what i was thinking....i know pumpkin people are good people and mostly ethical, but you better believe that there would be lying going on and people "keeping it on the down low" when they did help friends out by giving them seedlings.

6/11/2005 4:28:01 PM

Montoursville, PA

Everything else in the whole world is most, of the time germinated, by a greenhouse grower and sold, for growing on, to the general public.

Where would this situation be put. Another grower sent me a seed, in a towel wet wrapped, for bubble ship, at the last minute. It was germinated twenty four hours inroute. I put it, in the pot and moved it, to the patch six days later.

99.99% of the work takes place, in the patch. Let's not get, to concerned, about who germs or pots a seedling. It's the lowest skill we perform.

We honor the most recent genetics, by grower's name. We have most genetic data available. I think this is proper because someone worked a whole summer, to finish that cross. The honor, of the creation, is the important fact. That having been said we have a few clowns being dishonest, in the grow and handling, of all aspects, of our seed distribution. Sad but true.

6/11/2005 5:10:05 PM

Ohio

Mat,I would say 99.9 percent of growers who was helped out by another grower by sending them a plant that they grew the world record, Im sure they would mention the growers name who helped them out, dont you? Or would you just take the world record and run? I cant wait to hear this one Mat,LOL

6/11/2005 6:59:01 PM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

No doubt, most of us have germinated seeds and given away plants for others to grow. This is how we get more families involved in growing giant pumpkins. I have given away many seedlings , then grown and tended by others, only to be beaten at the scales by those give-aways. It's all good to share seeds and seedlings but as the Doc said "99.99% of the work takes place in the patch"

6/11/2005 6:59:23 PM

[email protected]

What's to prove? There have already been more than a few replacement plants that have gone on to produce record fruit. I don't ever recall there being any controversy about it though. The growers have always acknowleged the receipt of a "donor seedling" so far as I know.

6/11/2005 7:14:02 PM

Simi valley, ca

one more vote in DISAGREEANCE with orig post!!!!! Id be supprized if many thought that !!

6/11/2005 8:16:58 PM

Long Island,New York

Owen...What are the last names of the guys who helped you load your pumpkin....? I need to add them to my seed list.

6/11/2005 8:19:56 PM

canal winchester ohio

Why not go even futher, Let's use Charlie Brown as a example. Charlie Brown wants to grow a 842 Eaton, but he has no contacts & is unable to obtain one.
Until in rides Huffs Pumpkins on his white horse & gives ol' Chuck a 842 Eaton. Mr. Brown plants it & grows a new world record. Now,should I get some of the credit ? without my seed 'ol Chuck might not have grown his record........

6/11/2005 8:33:06 PM

Indiana

wow, this one is funny. Say a bird eats the seed and craps it out(ya, that would be a big bird, but still....) and it drops in my field and gets 4 or 500 lbs. Who gets the credit for that one?

6/11/2005 9:01:38 PM

Rhode Island

no offense intended, but it would not bother me one bit if someone gave me or i gave them a plant or two and one of us ended up with something special

in fact one of the plants we gave away a couple years ago grew a magnificant bright orange pumpkin just under a 1,000 lbs
which turned out to be a pb for him and also beat ours at the weigh off

we were not going to plant is so had we not given it away then nothing would have come from it-- a total loss

what does it matter where the plant or seed for that matter comes from ?, or how you got it ?
( how many are bought or won at auctions and raffles each year ? )
you can give the best seed stock in the world to a grower and if that groower does not know what they are doing the plant will give them very little in return
likewise a good grower can take any plant to its maximum potential with proper care and a little help from the pumpkin gods

so,if you grow it you own it period
if you choose to pay a compliment to the germinator of the seed thats ok to ,but not necessary

ill tell you what i believe really matters
when growers show up with giant pumpkins in their wifes, brothers,aunts, uncles and kids names when you know theres not a chance in hell any of them knows how to plant a seed much less grow prune and tend

dont get my comments wrong
there are some young children, etc., that tend plants with there family and some ladies also that do all there own work and are accomplished growers
im refering to the obvious situations where you know for a fact this is happening

these are the things we need to keep in check, so the true growers ,the ones that sacrifice there free time and spending money in this wonderful hobby do not get slighted at the scales

dick

6/11/2005 9:06:03 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

Amen

6/11/2005 9:42:22 PM

Hayes, Virginia

Yankees 5 Cardinals 0.

6/11/2005 10:13:16 PM

Ohio

Huff, you have a very good point there.

Brooks

6/11/2005 10:58:14 PM

Ohio

You too Pap!

6/11/2005 11:05:05 PM

No Place Special

One of my best plants right now is the 501 Beachy. It was germinated by Tom and delivered to me. Ill go ahead and thank Tom right now for helping me get a 1000 lber this yr.

6/11/2005 11:24:10 PM

Vancouver, White Rock, Canada

Interesting topic, in theory. A grower growing someone else's seddling hasn't done ALL of the work that was required to get the final product, but I have to agree with the majority here, in that the degree to which a final fruit's success is determined by what happens between when the seed is germinated to when the seedling is transplanted must be fairly miniscule compared to other facotrs like soil, pruning methods, watering, fertilization, etc...

6/12/2005 12:19:24 AM

Knopp, Germany

Wow, I guess I was wrong.

6/12/2005 12:20:25 AM

Joliet, IL

pap that is a great point. how do weigh off organizers make sure who actually grew the pumpkin is the person bringing it to the weigh off.? it wouldn't leave a good taste in my mouth if someone took first place who is just a family member of the person who actually grew it.

as far as who germinates a seed, it doesn't matter to me.
i have given over 20 plants to newbies and more than half were snapped off in the first week. it takes transplanting it in the ground safe and sound and training it and growing the plant and the pumpkin. no asterisk needed here. just my opinion.

6/12/2005 12:21:03 AM

Indiana

Owen, there is no right or wrong answer here the way I see it. Its just where we as growers draw the line. We can go as far as you want.

To follow your logic, we could even go a step further and say:

Perhaps the grower needs to produce the seed that grows their pumpkin.

I think the real question is where do we draw that line. A topic which I find very interesting and quite valuable. Perhaps if this line were drawn, rules such as the "same patch rule" wouldn't need to be made. A rule I personally find no better than age discrimination in my specific case.

Tom

6/12/2005 1:39:37 AM

White Bear Lake, Minnesota

If you adopted a child, and this child grew up to be a gold medal winner in the olympics. After many years of your guidance, love, money, support, and encouragement in the sport of your childs choice, would you need to say to the Judges," Hey put an asterisk by his/her gold medal, because he is not really mine".

6/12/2005 1:44:46 AM

Puyallup, WA

There are several "Champion" growers who have given small plants to help out a struggling friend....only to have the
"newbie" beat them at the scale in the Fall! Now, do these "Champion" growers have a "hissy fit" at the weigh-off claiming that it was really their plant? No...instead, they congratulate them!

6/12/2005 2:26:04 AM

NEPA [email protected] KB3QKV

Owen, you are not wrong. It was a thought or idea that you had. Besides look at the length of the discussion. This is impressive. Your idea is not wrong just because most disagree, it was thought provoking. It created a good discussion. Great discussion.

6/12/2005 8:19:26 AM

Massillon, Ohio

i agree good discussion. got me thinking. and a far better read than "how to bury my vines"

6/12/2005 8:23:21 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Anybody can germinate a seed, not anybody can grow a seedling into a full-size giant pumpkin....no asterisk.

6/12/2005 1:50:22 PM

White Bear Lake, Minnesota

Another Thought along this line. Is getting a seedling any worse than having to get some male pollinators from another grower?

6/13/2005 12:24:50 AM

Utah

so what do you do if...
A friend brings over manure to your patch?
and a different friend brings over his tiller and tills your patch?
when you hoops houses are up your wife opens and closes them when it sunny and cloudy depending on the weather?
you went on vacation for two weeks in July and your pumpkin friend watched over your patch and he did some pollinating for you?
and he used some pollin from one of his seeds?
but your neighbor also check in on the patch to make sure the sprinklers were working correctly?
but normally your wife does the pollinating because you leave for work early?
and also several different neighbors and family members stop by at various time through out the whole season and help you water, weed, fertilize, etc ... ?
and your wife and kids help you all through the season?
... I guess then you end up my 906, 891, 835 and 671 from last year.
906 Tanner 2004 * ** *** **** ***** ****** *******
891 Tanner 2004 * ** *** **** ***** ****** *******
835 Tanner 2004 * ** *** **** ***** ****** *******
671 Tanner 2004 * ** *** **** ***** ****** *******

6/13/2005 9:16:44 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

Now I like Huff's analogy..But everyone knows Charlie Brown does not like pumpkins. If Charlie Brown was given a pumpkin plant. He would discuss it with Snoopy. Then Snoopy would tell him to give it to Linus. Linus is the only peanuts character that has the patience to grow a giant pumpkin.

On another note. If my wife April puts her seeds in "MY" germinator. Then grows a bigger pumpkin than me. Did she really grow a bigger pumpkin than me.

Some grower once said " Remember to 99.5% of the people in the world, these are just pumpkins" If you are replying to this post I believe you fall in the .5%.

6/13/2005 10:34:16 AM

Somers, CT

If you are kneeling in compost and manure on a 95 degree day pulling weeds and burying vines while your family and neighbors are in their swimming pools drinking frozen daquories...then you definitely are part of the 0.5%.

I say no penalty for germination. Give the germinator a shout at the weighoff and buy him a beer.

6/13/2005 12:29:33 PM

Utah

sorry to pile on Owen
... but it was to much for me to resist ! LOL !

6/13/2005 2:39:14 PM

Follansbee, Wv

Rob T, you just described my day yesterday. 90°, high humidity, wife and kids in the pool, and I'm weeding pumpkins (and beans, and cabbage, and tomatoes, and strawberries...)

6/13/2005 5:09:42 PM

Somers, CT

Me too.

6/13/2005 5:20:12 PM

Knopp, Germany

i said fire away Gordon, i deserved all comments.

i already admitted i was wrong. my idea was not well thought out.

6/14/2005 1:20:59 AM