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San Diego, Ca.

My 731 Stucker has been growing very well for me up until this last week. I started to notice the secondary vines would grow out about 4 feet and then growth would stall just like when the plant slows down to put all it's energy into pumpkin growth. As of right now I don't have any secondaries over 4 feet long. The first 5 secondaries starting from the stump have stalled, the next 4 are actively growing and are about 3-4 feet in length. After those there are secondaries coming out along the main vine but are only about 6 inches long and don't seem to be doing much of anything.
The main vine is about 14 feet long.The plant is just about 2 months old and the first pumpkin should be ready to pollinate in less than a week.
What has me puzzled is that the main vine continues to grow 9"-12" each day and the leaves it is putting out along the main are large, up to 28" across and the leaves show no signs of any problem. They are very green and healthy looking. There are no signs of disease that I can tell. It all looks normal.
I doubt the plant has some genetic defect but could that be possible?
My first thought was it must be something lacking in the soil but if that was the case why is the main growing so well?
The area I am growing the plant in is small but I have grown plants over 400 sqft from this spot the last 2 years so I don't suspect the roots are cramped. (See diary)

Is it possible to somehow get the secondaries that have stalled to resume growth again?
There is a picture of the plant in my diary (June 5) to show how it looks.

I sure could use some advise on what to do or try.
Any suggestions are welcome! Vince

6/9/2005 12:35:33 AM

San Diego

Vince is a good friend of mine, I think the plant is at fault and just genetics. His growing area is fine in my eyes. Need some help here, any experienced growers confirm this? Jimmy

6/9/2005 9:42:14 PM

Springfield, MO

What have you sprayed with? My guess is something affected the growing tips of the secondaries, but was not applied so heavily to the growing tip on your main. I've never gotten a stunted secondary to start growing again. -- Chris

6/9/2005 11:38:18 PM

San Diego, Ca.

Chris, nothing has been sprayed on the leaves to this point except for one application of Immunox for PM and I never spray closer to the tips than 4 leaves back. I sprayed about a week ago but I was starting to notice something wasn't right before I sprayed.
For ferts, only a weekly application of fish/seaweed and
2 tsp. Ammonium sulfate as a drench.
Could the ammonium sulfate be playing a role in this problem somehow? I've never used ammonium sulfate on pumpkins until this year. That is the only thing different I am doing this year compared to years past.

I don't know, maybe it's time to start another seed :-(
I just can't see getting a pumpkin of any size on just a main vine and a couple secondaries (that is, if they don't stop growing too).

6/10/2005 12:45:38 AM

Springfield, MO

I have only used ammonium sulfate as a dry fertilizer to incorporate into the soil, so I cannot speak to the use of it as a drench from personal experience. However, I would be concerned that the inorganic nitrogen could indeed burn and that the growing tips would be most susceptible to this. Ammonium sulfate does have the highest salt index of the nitrogen fertilizers. However, having looked at the pics in your diary, with an otherwise healthy main and good looking leaves like that, I sure don't think I'd pull the plant at this late date. I'd just make sure to set the pumpkin on the main, naturally. -- Hope it works out well for you! -- Chris

6/10/2005 1:55:44 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

Vince,
Do the the tips of the secondaries, that aren't growing, look normal? I had a few secondaries, on my plant last year, quit growing at about 6'. The tips self-terminated into a cluster of male flowers.
Are your secondaries rooting into the soil. Maybe without root support, on the vine, they won't grow much?
Just some thoughts.

Doug

6/10/2005 4:39:58 PM

San Diego, Ca.

Doug,
The secondaries do look normal but one of the things I did notice even before the tips stopped growing was that the secondary vines were not as big around as I thought they should be.
The tips are like what you described, starting to turn into a cluster of male flowers. I will post a picture in my diary after I post this.
The secondaries have not put any tap roots down yet but I think thats because they are not very long. There are signs that tap roots are starting to form at each node...you can just start to see them.
I can only guess the plant must be a dud.
I'll be patient for a couple more weeks but in the meantime
I've been looking over my seed list for a replacement. I can still plant now and have a pumpkin for halloween. I don't have to worry about frost until usually December.

6/10/2005 5:34:57 PM

[email protected]

Our 842 eaton did the same thing last year...grew like heack, then all the newest leaves stopped expanding for weeks. The new growth also got "wrinkled" almost like a virus. Though not lab tested for Mosaic, the local Entomologist felt the plant was clean.

In hind sight I believe a neighbors "weed & feed" application drifted onto the patch. 2,4-d causes major problems for AGs.

Has anyone used a lawn herbicide within 100' of your patch in the past week or so?

6/10/2005 9:30:23 PM

Montoursville, PA

No but I can tell anyone that the conditions for drift were excellent. The elements that enable airborn drift could not be better in my neck of the woods.

To my immediate West is a large institution that uses some form of weed and feed. I have informed them of my concern.
For some reason communciation had come to a stand still. :)

6/10/2005 11:30:33 PM

San Diego, Ca.

Steve, you quite possibly may have nailed it. Just a couple weeks ago my neighbor was showing me some weed n feed spray she was going to use on her lawn. I cautioned her not to use it if there was even the slightest breeze. She went ahead and used it one morning and I have no idea where she sprayed exactly or if there was a breeze. The 731 is protected near where she would have sprayed by a fence and at least 15 feet but some airflow does get through downwind from the direction she would have been spraying.
I am going to check to see if what she sprayed has 2,4-d in it.
Now my question is:
If the spray was to actually affect my plant how much of the spray would have to get on the plant to mess it up?

Can or will my plant recover if this is what happened?

6/11/2005 10:38:28 AM

Minnesota([email protected])

Vince,
I checked out the diary pic, and thats what about three of my secondary vine tips looked like last yr.(at about the 6' mark). I wonder how common is?

6/11/2005 12:24:50 PM

Rhode Island

doug

im at a loss, ron and i have never had this situation ,ever

i think trem is correct

he is a walking research manual when it comes to soils, insect and disease problems

and, he would be a consistant top ten grower if his growing area was larger

dick

6/11/2005 1:26:14 PM

San Diego, Ca.

Confirmed, weed-b-gon was used. Ingredient...2,4-d. Very possible that this may be the culprit. I'm not 100% certain this is the problem but it makes the most sense.

Main vine still continues to grow 9"-13" a day. 3 secondaries growing good so far. I'm waiting to see if more secondaries will be coming. Maybe I could grow tertiary vines on those secondaries if I should be so lucky.

Anyone else had a situation like this with the 2.4-d. Is my plant toast???

Doug,is it possible your plant could have been exposed to a 2,4-d spray?

6/12/2005 10:02:27 AM