From

Location

Message

Date Posted

South Hill, Virginia

Several years ago there were very few clubs and they were very easy to keep up with. Now there are so many I would probably have a hard time naming half of them. Don't get me wrong, I think more is better, but sometimes it makes me wonder about a few things.

It is a common assumption that clubs are non-profit but is that just a figure of speech or are these clubs registered at a state or federal level for non-profit status? How can that be verified? Seems to me a club could be set up as a "for profit" business very easily and just operate under the guise of non-profit. I'm not against "for profit" but if that is the case it should be made known.

What rights do members (or the general public)have as far as access to business records? If a club is registered with the feds or state then I'm sure there are procedures to ensure accountability but what if they are not registered?

I am a member of several clubs and I don't have any particular one in mind. It's just that tax time of year that got me wondering. Can anyone share what their organization does (like publish info in a newletter or website)?

4/6/2005 2:42:41 PM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

If I undersdtand correctly, in Canada there is a distinction made between "non-profit" and "not for profit." (I took a class in this stuff, but I'm not sure how much I remember correctly)

"Not for profit" doesn't necessarily mean that the organization does not make a profit. It just means that the profits get put back into the organization instead of going to investors or CEOs of a private, "for profit" organization.

A "non-profit" organization would not make a profit.

Essentially, a non-profit organization in Canada is understood to be for the benefit of the people and is considered to be "owned" by the public. That also makes them accountable to the people. They are governed by a Board of Governors who are not allowed to be paid for sitting on the board.

4/6/2005 3:00:01 PM

Montoursville, PA

It is not that easy, to determine anything about this question, in the states. You may go to Google for a whole bunch, of reading, on the subject.

There is likely no single subject other than taxing information or opinion more incorrectly discussed if, in fact, simple answers were available.

One of the largest non-profits used, to be, the Salvation Army. The Catholic Church is another huge non-profit. They work with much non-taxible property as well as all forms of income an organization, of that size, may generate. This right was given, by our government, to all who wish, to file and operate under the many many rules and laws established, to guide them.

Generally speaking small organizations stay "for profit" to avoid the mountain, of reporting and adminstrative needs that come into view when considering non-profit status.

4/6/2005 3:39:47 PM

Eugene,OR

Basically a Non-Profit Organization has been granted a preferential tax status by the State and Feredal government. A group is granted this status because its "charitable purpose" fits a set of ctiteria set up by the state and feds. If Non-Profit status has been granted to an organization their tax filings are a matter of pubnlic record. Here in California you can access Non-Profit's tax filings through the State Attourney General's Office. Through their web site anyone may look up any specific California Non-Profit's tax records.

4/6/2005 4:37:06 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Hi Brent,

I hope you have made a good recovery.
I am Treasurer of my village gardening society and have been for many years this involves preparing annual accounts and presenting them at an AGM where anyone can view and ask any questions about them.
I also make a treasurers report to the committee at every meeting we have.This format has served us well this year will be our 79th Annual Show.
We are not a registered charity and our turnover is not high enough for the taxman to be involved.
Transparency is essential as some gossip will always be ready to say you are putting money in your own pocket.

4/6/2005 4:58:12 PM

Salinas, Ca

Vineman stated it well for California. Nonprofit status is granted and its financial records (federal tax form 990) are open to the public. Here is the link to investigate CA nonprofits:

http://www.guidestar.org/partners/cadoj/index.jsp

I am not sure if other states offer this type of information.

Next time someone knocks on your door requesting a donation and claiming to be a CA nonprofit organization run to your computer and look them up.

4/6/2005 7:53:18 PM

[email protected]

Our accountant had us incorporate the CT GS&PGA under the watchful eye of the IRS using one of those 1024 forms. I doubt that many of the clubs are legally tax exempt 501C charitable organizations. The hoops we had to jump through were amazing. Fortunatly a fellow club member is a CPA with experience setting up just such an organization.

4/6/2005 9:42:52 PM

South Hill, Virginia

Steve,

I guess that is what made me ask. I was looking into what it takes and it seems quite extensive. It's hard for me to believe that all pumpkin clubs bothered to do what you guys did. Thats okay but I assume they would make some effort to disclose their finances to at least their membership. If I paid a membership fee for an organization and spent $300 at their seed auction (this is hypothetical) for all I know it could go in someones pocket or to pay for someones trip to a conference if they have no oversight.

I would think that this is something people who finance these clubs would be interested in but maybe I'm wrong.

4/6/2005 10:17:47 PM

Eugene,OR

Probably the least expensive and easiest (if that is the right word for it) way to go through the process of becoming a non-profit is by using a guide book published by Nolo Press called something like "Incorporating as a Non-Profit in California" (or whatever state you choose to become a non-profit in). It will come with a computer disc which has all of the necessary forms and will take you through the process step-by-step. The Nolo Press book takes a lot of the mystery out of the process. In California it takes about 9 months if you are dilligent in your correspondance with the government agencies that you have to interact with. Once your non-profit has been formed the annual reporting is really not a big deal as long as you keep good financial records. You might also consider aligning your organization with an existing nation-wide organization such as "Garden Clubs of America" (which is formerly known as the Men's Garden Club of America) which already is set up to have affiliate organizations that share goals which are in line with their charitable purpose. There is probably a chapter somewhere nearby that might allow you to operate as an "affiliate".

4/6/2005 10:43:31 PM

Eugene,OR

There might be some value to clubs in developing some sort of a national pumpkin growing organization, which would have affiliate organizations across the USA. Such an organization could provide insurance, guidelines, policies, etc for weighoffs and the other various activities clubs participate in. This might be something which could be incorporated into the GPC organization which would help foster clubs nationwide which would in turn would strive to help the GPC meet their goals.

4/6/2005 10:49:56 PM

Eugene,OR

I've been involved with a 501c3 called USA Triathlon for the past 20 years or so and it is interesting how similar many of the issues facing the pumpkin growing community are to the issues the fledgling sport of triathlon was dealing with 20 years ago. Through the formation of Tri-Fed/USA, which is now known as USA Triathlon, the sport has flourished to the point that it is now an Olympic medal sport. It all started out as a few people (kind of like the GPC folks) putting together competitive guidelines and a vision to develop and promote the sport. Now triathletes can enjoy safe, fair and fun events across the country. Triathlon clubs also have an "umbrella" under which they operate as non-profit entities.

4/6/2005 11:01:00 PM

Indiana

I believe the IPGA is a registered non profit. I would like to see what all organizations are. I know there are some clubs with huge bank accounts too. I dont know the laws here, so just kind of curious as to what is what, who is who, and where is where.

Tom

4/6/2005 11:47:17 PM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

Vineman, if I read you correctly, you seem to be suggesting that in 20 years giant pumpkin growing will be an Olympic event :-)

It may be worth noting that "charity" probably doesn't have to mean "registered charity". But, if they want to be tax exempt and issue tax receipts, they would need to register and submit to government regulation. That seems to be the case in Canada from the articles I've read.

4/7/2005 12:26:59 AM

Mill Bay, British Columbia

For details on non profits, associations, clubs, societies, or whatever it may be called in your area, visit http://www.sba.gov/ for the Small Business Administration in the United States and http://www.cbsc.org in Canada for the Canada Business Service Centres. Each office has a location in your area and can advise on the specifics regarding registation and operations of such organizations.

Glenn

4/7/2005 1:48:59 AM

ohio

Should The GPC be Non Profit then?

4/7/2005 6:29:24 AM

Eugene,OR

I think that it is much easier for a Non-Profit to secure funding through sponsorship and local government (through TOT money). People in general are more willing to donate their time, energy and ideas to a Non-Profit than they are to a private business. It just opens a lot of doors for an organization that otherwise would be closed.

4/7/2005 10:20:49 AM

Roselle, IL [email protected]

My accountant won't even talk to me about the IGPGA , until after 4-15 . From what I understand, a non for profit can be a real nightmare to set up.Clubs are selling seeds, shirts and memberships to get money for weigh-offs. What about in state sales tax on seeds and shirts? I have a corporation and it might make things easier with trying to set up the IGPGA . I would like to know what all the other clubs have done.

4/7/2005 8:42:50 PM

[email protected]

As I recall, the application (once it was ready for signing) was 38 pages long & signing & dating took about as long as a standard mortgage.

One item that struck me was the need to name another allied 501C to serve as a depository should we ever disband. This insures the directors don't split the money & pocket it.

Another oddity is the need to never profit from any club related transaction. As an example, I set up a wholesale purchase account with my employer for our members to purchase supplies at a reduced cost. But the account was in my "sales book" & therefore in years I met or exceeded sales quota, the bonus (commision) that I am paid would automatically place me (and the club) in a conflict of interest punishable by fines in court.

Needless to say, the clubs account is closed. We could reopen the account in another salespersons name as long as I never benefit directly from a transaction. But since I'm a stockholder of note in the company I won't even let that happen.

I suppose that most garden & Giant Pumpkin clubs start out so small that they never even realize the need for all these formalities. Indeed most are no where near wealthy enough to attract much attention. They just fly under the radar of the IRS. But if a group or weigh-off ever wants to get serious about finding a generous corporate sponsor, they really do need to get their act together first.

4/7/2005 9:07:21 PM