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Palmyra Ohio

I doug out a 4'x 3' nutrient pit in my heavy clay soil the other day in preperation for my first season. I filled it with compost and worm castings. Its raining pretty good right now so I went out in the rain with my flashlight (Yes I am thinking pumpkins at 3:00 A.M.) to see how much water, if any was in the pit.

The good news is that I have never seen so many worms in such a small spot in my entire life. They like my pit.
The bad news is that if you dig down into the pit, there is a foot of water at the bottom. The clay soil is acting like a bowl and holding the water. I suspect that there were a ton of worms having a good time in my pit until the water forced them up.

How do I overcome this? Should I just build my pit up really high? I can get my hands on a lot more compost if I have to. Should I forget the pit and just try to work as much compost into the clay as I can in that area?

Any suggestions from people who have delt with this problem before me would be appreciated.

4/2/2005 3:31:07 AM

Ohio

how about a small underground drain pipe? Go to one of these places where people dump all their junk out in no mans land(Like old tires, old shingles for roofs ect ect,I sure would like to catch them people that dump garbage up the road from my house) and I bet you find alot of it, if it dont have holes init, drill them yourself.

Brooks

4/2/2005 5:11:43 AM

[email protected]

I'll assume there isn't time to get a backhoe into the patch?

Having a patch that is one big honey hole is a good goal. If this isn't practical, try renting a power earth auger.

A 2 man unit is a miserable thing to work with but might get you below the impermeable subsoil that is preventing proper drainage. If you are able to bore through to drainable soils, then backfill the drain holes with a mixed size gravel to keep the hole flowing.

Next year a backhoe & elaborate drainage system can be constructed.

4/2/2005 5:18:53 AM

Montoursville, PA

It is much easier to build up a foot than dig down half a foot. I would go for one big enriched patch about a foot over the existing and keep adding from there.

Drainage only works when water can run downhill. Then it often times makes problems where ever it goes. The Corps of Engineers are still trying to figure out this simple principle. Their interests have created more failures than any other organization, in the world.

Water is best left in it's own flood zones. Structures or improved soils are best raised above the problem or moved to higher ground.

4/2/2005 6:30:30 AM

White Plains, NY

Dig at the fringe area and install a 5 gal bucket with holes/slots in it at the bottom of the water level. Put in a small sump pump with a side on and off float. A small pump that you operate manually also works.

At times I also collect this pumped out water as it is a nice tea after going thru the manure and fertizer.

4/2/2005 6:37:49 AM

Roanoke Il

work for raised beds not pits.. mark

4/2/2005 8:03:18 AM

Palmyra Ohio

Thanks for the responses! Now that I have had some sleep to think on it, I should have known better. We lost a lot of bushes my wife planted last year because of this. Unfortunatly, my patch is on the "high ground", if thats what you can call it. I will have to go up this year, as I have already spent a small fortune on everything from Agro-K to seaweed to a drip system. Nobody warned me how expensive it was to start this thing up! :) If this summer is like last summer, I wont even need the drip system.

So I am goig to dig out my compost, re-fill the pit with its original soil, and try to build up on top of it while I still have time to do this. Thanks again!

4/2/2005 12:54:21 PM

Vancouver, White Rock, Canada

In the patch at 3:00am with a flashlight? Wow. I'd say that qualifies you as an "AG freak" like most of the rest of us...

4/2/2005 2:43:43 PM

Hobbiton New Zealand

I have heavy clay about 2 feet down at my place I dug the pits about 4 feet deep then with a hand auger witn down about another 8-9 feet then filled this hole up with broken bricks neve seemed to have a water ponding problem so I guess i went deep enough to allow the watere to drain out

4/2/2005 7:44:12 PM

Rhode Island

i agree with steve jepson

if its not to late you really need to get any piece of equipment into the patch
one that will get down 3 to 4 ft and break up that hard surface

farmers also usually have a large chizel plow that they can run over your patch with and this to will break up the hardpan

if you dont get this straightened out your root and plant growth will suffer greatly
and, you are opening up the plant to lots of disease if the soil can not breath properly ( ever try breathing with a bag over your head ? )

hope this helps

pap

4/2/2005 8:12:29 PM

Key West, FL

plant in a different spot in y our garden, I would not plant in the pit.

4/2/2005 11:31:25 PM

Palmyra Ohio

Hi Pap!

I dont know what a "chizel plow" is, but, last fall I had a farmer come in with a plow of some sort and turn it over. It went down about three feet. My topsoil is three feet down under the clay. The guy I had plow it pointed it out to me. I think the clay is from where my basement was dug out. I hit it with a rototiller then and then again about a week ago when we had some nice weather. I (think) I may have already done as you suggested. I think you and I are on the same page.

4/2/2005 11:38:23 PM

Palmyra Ohio

Hi Darky!

I used to lay concrete for a living. Sometimes we would dig "Dry wells". Its just a deep hole filled with gravel with some drain pipes leading into it. you then cover it back up with soil. I think its time my garden got one.
Thanks for the idea!

4/2/2005 11:46:03 PM

Picton,ON ([email protected])

I also have heavy clay soils and was considering the nutriant pit idea before researshing the thing earlier this winter. The tight clay soils will always be slow to drain. My patch is covered with small ponds as we speak. You need to be very careful mucking around out there when it is wet. You can do more dammage than good if the soil is wet and your driving over it with equipment and/ or digging out he pit and /or adding drainage. By adding significant quantities of organic material over time you will drasticly improve the drainage. I am considering putting in a couple of tile drains next fall. But this will only get done when the soil is dry! It usually starts to get wet here around the middle of October so its real tight to get the fall work completed before hand.

4/3/2005 9:58:59 AM

Rhode Island

john
a chizel ( if i spelled it correctly ) is a single blade about 6 inches wide and approximately 3 to 4 ft long

the tractor pulls this chizel around the ground and it goes deep to turn over any hard pan
unfortunately a few years ago we got piggish and brought in to much manure. then by constantly driving over the patch ( to spred the crap ) we made a nice bit of pavement about a foot or so down ( we had lots of disease and poor root development the following year because of this )

we fixed the problem by having a mediun size back hoe come in during the fall of 03 and turn the entire patch over
( lots and lots of green manure turned up that could not even break down because of the hard pan

pap

4/3/2005 1:57:42 PM

huntsburg,ohio

no pits go up.Jerry

4/3/2005 8:12:11 PM

Northern Cambria, Pa.

I agree with Jerry. Build a mound, not a pit.

4/3/2005 9:35:11 PM

Billerica,Massachusetts

do both dig down to the hard pan, break it up and then fill in the pit and raise it up, also add sand to the soil, did that last year and it worked well.

Glenn

4/4/2005 8:20:32 AM

Warwood

Borer, you're definitely on the right track with the best of both worlds. Pumpkin roots hate the hard pan. No pit but get 1-2ft. of good soil. Mine is good now down to 3' counting the hardpan I brokeup double digging, added one foot of compost and good topsoil mixed. I do have excellent drainage though being on a hill in Wild Wonderful WV...LOL. Best soil results I've ever had. I've also added course sand and/or small pea gravel in first foot. I'm excited this year!! Don

4/5/2005 10:46:19 PM