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I am curious to kknow how many growers have used Humic Acid supplements. Particulary, have you noted an improvement in micronutrient efficiency?

2/13/2005 9:55:29 PM

Montoursville, PA

My Mycorrhizae source now has Humic Acid added, to the mix. Before that I always gingerly used Fertrell's humic acids as an additive, to my aerobic teas.

Good and healthy soils containing manures and compost already contain some if not enough mycorrhizae and humic acids, from natural sources.

I add a reinnoculation, of mycorrhizae and a very minimal amount, of humic acids serving both up more or less like a vitimin pill might be considered, for human health. My soil is still lightly tilled. I know of no way to measure the content or values, from the use, of humates or humic acids, within the price range, of hobby growers. Nothing goes zooming up or down after adding humates or hummic acids. Adding a little as some do may help stablilize existing humates and humic acids consequently other factors or needs, in the patch.

I do not know many of any healthy patch growers who do not use at least some humic acids applied yearly. I know of no knowledgeable healthy patch grower who would single out any one thing such as humic acid which occurs naturaly, in the healthy patch, to be credited, to any specific noticable purpose.

Anyone who uses natural manures and composts are adding natural humic acids derived from humates and delivered, by mycorrhizae yearly. All the bacteria, fungi and other living critters finishes the total job, of food, for the plant, in cooperation with specific actions the plants themselves cause, to take place.

2/14/2005 11:07:48 AM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

The fish and kelp formula I use has formic and humic acids added to it as an "Energizer".

2/14/2005 12:22:19 PM

[email protected]

Here in the acidic Northeast, we apply Dolomitic or calcitic Lime to raise the soil pH. All that surplus Calcium knock the already low Manganese (not Magnesium) off the charts.

This isn't shocking & the private emails I've been getting are from guys who have had the same "northeastern" soil test results as me.

We do use Neptunes Fish/seaweed blend & they list minute amounts of humates. But foliar treatments aren't benefitting the exchange of my soil applied amendments...

Try though I have, the additions of insane amounts of manures haven't budged the soil manganese one bit. We must have some manganese deficient cows in these parts what with them getting their greens off the same soils. Leaves & composts (grass & leaves) haven't helped the Manganese either. Here again, these source materials are locally grown in the same deficient scenario.

Therefore last spring I applied 2.3 times the labeled rate of a commercial granular Manganese Sucrate to the soil. But as one might expect, the soluble faction locked up tight as a drum.

continued

2/14/2005 12:47:42 PM

[email protected]

The solution has been to apply chelated Manganese through the overhead sprinklers & be done with it. This is effective but time consuming & reduces the opportunity to make other required sprays.

My gut tells me that combining a Humic acid solution with a manganese solution as a "pre-planting starter" might allow for some degree of soil efficiency.

But we're already over 19% OM with worms out the wahzoo. So our naturally ocurring humates should already be dialed. Grrrrr.

Ronny, I'll call tonight at 9PM...your test looks just like mine. My next soil test is going out this week. We'll see then how much a waste the fall application was. LOL

PS....All this was confirmed by tissue & soil analysis so there are no hidden other deficiencies or imbalances. Visually its just the occasional chlorosis of the leaves as the vines run in May & June. I like to call this "chlorphyl deficiency" since it can be iron, magnesium or manganese & only a soil & a tissue test combined can conclusively determine the cause as they all look virtually the same. However any condition that favors less than ideal growth is.......less than ideal. LOL

2/14/2005 12:47:49 PM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Steve,I have used the type of product you are talking about in my case Earthworks soil conditioner granules which are made from Leonardite,In 2003 I used some in a starting mix in 2004 I worked some into the planting areas and where the main vine was to go and this year spread some over the whole patch.
I do also get chlorosis of some leaves in May and have tried soil drenching around plants with magnesium,manganese and Iron trace elements (sequestrol)and also sulphate of Iron applied autumn 2003.
Things may have improved a tiny little bit but I can't say which treatment (if any)made a differance.
AG's seem very susceptable to this,Cucumbers and marrows in the same patch show no chlorosis.

Volunteer potatoes in my patch often show signs of magnesium deficiency in the winter months this disappears when the weather warms up.I was wondering if I was overwatering when the plant is small and that was causing the problem.

2/14/2005 4:21:09 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Steve, what levels of surplus calcium are you most concerned with? This chlorosis problem also appeared in one small area of my patches also. I tried using both Humic acid and an Iron chelate products to correct the problem. I believe the plant simply outgrew this condition as it spread over the garden and sent down new roots. I have no data to confirm this.

2/14/2005 7:01:19 PM

[email protected]

That's the trouble Russ. These things grow so fast we would just about have to do tissue nutrient tests every week during the spring vine run to insure we have a complete handle on why cholorosis is happening. After 2 consecutive years of testing, I'm convinced I know why it's happening here (Manganese). But aside from foliar applications, I haven't yet gotten around the issue. Soil locking of micronutrients is difficult to correct.

There is no question that humic acid benefits the exchange of micronutrients. But in the case of our Cucurbita Maximas, all but the most dialed soils are likely to exhibit this cholorosis. These things feed very heavily.

I suspect that cool &/or fluctuating soil temperatures have a lot to do with this phenomenon. I also suspect that when we over react to these symptoms we sometimes cause more problems that we solve.

The Sulfate form of iron is very soluble & would bind hard & fast on our soils. Thus I tried the Sucrate form to slow it's binding. I'm not happy with the results so far.

I'll keep at it with the Humic acid & manganese sucrate & see if I can't at least reduce the need for foliars some.

2/14/2005 8:35:31 PM

Montoursville, PA

I'm satisfied that I and many others tinker and attempt to doctor to many pumpkin events.

When OM gets to 10% or higher there really seems to be no reason to be concerned unless a single element or condition would consistantly text deficient.

Healthy plant is the answer whatever that takes. This may involve foliar feeding treatments yet some do none of this and have grown in the top ten percent of all size records.

I see non relationship between knowlege or any specific program that works for all. Literally nothing has become a must do factor that shows in the top growers patches except: There is a definate leaning towards natural additives. These are the all time basics, of adding manures, composts and remineralization. This, of course demands a cover crop, to maintain the biological condition and strength, of the soil over the colder months.

Maybe the real answer is for me to stop tinkering so much with those additives which are what I call pill bottle attempts. Even, on the organic side, of the leanings, there can easily be screwed up ballances. Maybe all we need do with these patch soils that look perfect is to stand back and let be. I for one am thinking very carefully, in this direction. My management will include less tinkering and more actions, to support, what is already, in the soil trying, to regain ballances that I may have tilted, by over doing a lot, of things, with my knee jerk mentality, to fix someting now when time and patience may have been the answer.

2/21/2005 10:38:37 AM