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San Diego

Does anyone else notice that the majority of the top seeds now days aren't good for orange color? In the past we had the 801 stelts get planted widely with good color offspring that became popular, like the 846 calai and the 705 stelts. But the old generation is passing slowly. Now we have the 723, 845, 805, 1097, 582, 898, etc etc where the seeds throw mostly white, squashy, tan pumpkins with an occasional orange popping up. That being said, what are peoples opinions on the future of pumpkin color? Are we going to have another 801 stelts type pumpkin pop up or are we going to bread more and more uglies? Seems weight and size with ugly color is winning.

2/2/2005 10:26:30 PM

Picton,ON ([email protected])

I also think this is a dangerous trend. I was a new grower last year, so as such a little knowledge is a dangerous thing! Multiple back crossings to lines that are primarily white are slowly breeding the orange out of our giant pumpkins. I haven’t been around long enough to trace this back to the original “culprit” that introduced this genetic flaw. That said; most if not all the aforementioned pumpkins trace back the 935 Lloyd, truly a tremendously important pumpkin, but very light in colour.
I think there are still lines out there that are very large and very orange. Hopefully some growers will keep them going. Most of the seeds I will plant this spring will trace to the 935. However I would like to plant a couple of orange outcrosses for pollinators.

2/2/2005 11:01:19 PM

C N Y

cross big and ugly by orange and lovely.
i guess we just have to follow that statement once in
a while to avoid this stagnation of which you speak.
869.5 Calai and results from selfing it i do believe would be excellent color-inducers. check out the 735 Drake '02
on the AGGC--there's the result of an 845 Bobier pollinated by the 1140 Stelts. the result of the 735 Drake for me was a heavy for its size and nicely-orange fruit.
if you would like some 1140 Stelts X SELF, from my '01
341 est., email me for my address and i will send you a few for color-induction---you might even grow a biggie off of the 341! eric ps-one never knows the result of a cross.
muhahahahahah....ahem. just kidding--where'd that come from?

2/3/2005 1:28:08 AM

Hudsonville, Michigan ([email protected])

It used to bug me when I heard people refer to light orange pumpkins that I had grown as "...not a pumpkin. It's not even orange. It's just some hybrid squash." It USED to bug my until I realized that I felt the same way. It's been engrained in our culture for hundreds of years...from the time of the pilgrims, and the native Americans before them...pumpkins=orange. So I think 700# orange does more for the sport than 1100# cream at a weighoff. Watch the little kids. They go for the orange ones.
Duster, you're right. There is a different list of hot seeds for heavy than there is for orange. I'd like to see more growers do what Eric is describing by pollinating their cream giants with color.
In my opinion, 846 Jutras is the new color seed of choice. It had a good first year out of the box and throws deep orange fruit. It is as good as the 801 for color, and like the 801, is very heavy on 567 Mombert genetics. Many other good color seeds out there, too. But keep your eye on 846 Jutras.
Frank

2/3/2005 8:23:29 AM

[email protected]

I wouldn't call this trend new or dangerous. It is what it is.

The 801/846 tends to throw light & has since '97/'99. Growers who are primarily after the color seem to have accepted this limitation yet to their credit, continue to strive for the "Perfect Pumpkin".

Howard Dill was a lot like this. Color & shape meant more to him than many of his US counterparts in the late '70s & early '80s.

Thus after the introduction of the early Dill's Atlantic Giant seeds someone was bound to reach for the "Circleville/Gancarz/Cornell" strains & make crosses. Heavy producing fruit & better scale performance came into being. But "unpredictability" became even more prevalent.

The rest is the colorful history of the journey to today.

2/3/2005 8:26:58 AM

Dillsburg, PA

I asked a question here a few months ago whether people preferred to grow a 1100 ugly monster or a perfectly round/orange 700lb pumpkin.The majority of people responded with growing the ugly monster. I prefer the smaller orange pumpkin.

2/3/2005 8:46:28 AM

Western Pa.

The heaviest takes home the most $$$$. This is the ONLY agenda for some growers, which is O.K. There are still growers out there that grow staunchly for the "orange" (or "green") of it. Heavy AND orange is what a lot of growers strive for, and I don't think things will change much!

2/3/2005 9:24:28 AM

Utah

I agree with Steve and Kilr... it's the way things are set up now.
Personally I really like orange ... and plant the majority of my seeds with that in mind... but to answer Jeffs question I'd rather have a 1100 lb ugly white one ... and have my fruit fruit over 1000 lbs.
There will always be people who plant for color (orange or green) regardless of weight and others for weight regardless of color ... I think alot of us try for both ...
but we all fall some where in the spectrum ... which is fine with me.
that's my 2 cent anyway
gordon

2/3/2005 10:35:49 AM

Utah

should have been first fruit - not fruit fruit ...

2/3/2005 10:37:15 AM

Dillsburg, PA

My motivation I guess to grow these things are for Halloween. Everyone has different reasons why they grow. It took me a few years to have this opinion. Looking at diarys over the years influenced me a lot. When I see a nice orange one being produced I usually ask the grower for seeds. Orange just gets my attention more. This process has limited the amount of seeds that I request. Muller, Frantz,and Sandstrom for example have prodeced nice/huge orange pumpkins. Jeff

2/3/2005 12:03:15 PM

No Place Special

I agree that it appears that more and more giant pumpkins are becoming less beautiful. They are becoming cream and white colored blobs. Many of today’s pumpkins are looking more like freaks of nature than a pumpkin. The definition of a perfect pumpkin has become strictly for weight and heavy to the charts, and not a nice shape and color. I think the majority of growers would grow a pumpkin that the parents were over 1000 lbs or a heavy OTT long before they would put in a beautiful shaped and orange to the chart pumpkin. I am an Orange grower and love the nice looking pumpkins. But lets be honest, we are here for one thing…. WEIGHT, and that is how our peers judge our gardening skills. When you look at the statistics, ugly weighs more most of the time. When I see the future of giant pumpkins, I see the true orange pumpkin as the minority or maybe even near extinction someday….. Maybe sooner than later. I am making it one of my priorities to help breed for color, shape…. AND size. I know there are other orange lovers out there and we are outnumbered. I hope that we can turn the tables a little in the orange direction before it is too late. For color I will be planting my 1125, 869 Calai and 1101 Northrup. I think all 3 of these have potential to be winners in size also but I will also be planting the less attractive 1097, 842, 805 and 1260. Don’t worry, the ugly ones will be sitting at the back of the bus and not allowed to touch the 3 chosen color plants.

2/3/2005 12:59:37 PM

In the shade - PDX, OR

Heaviest wins - so dictates the pattern of current genetics.


There are a few hitters that always seem to have some nice orange ones though...

Steve Daletas & Joe Jutras are the first that come to mind.

2/3/2005 1:04:07 PM

Menomonie, WI ([email protected])

As I have been told "It is not a beauty contest, the heaviest wins". Some of us will still continue to grow orange and pretty. Although I must say it is hard.

2/3/2005 1:19:58 PM

[email protected]

OK....It's time for an embarassing revelation.

The one that lands on our front porch is the one that survives & fits regardless of color. Krylon spray paint is OK on Halloween since the judges all smile anyway

As long as it's dry anyway.

2/3/2005 1:22:20 PM

Garden

I am going strictly for color....because I have altready proven that I cant grow for weight :)

2/3/2005 1:47:48 PM

Dillsburg, PA

Fadedavid, I think you have a pretty good point. If it appears that you are not going to break any records why not go for orange. Climate, space, and other factors might cost you a really huge one. If my average is 200-300lbs you bet I am only growing orange. Who would want a white/tan 200lb pumpkin?

2/3/2005 1:53:06 PM

Hudsonville, Michigan ([email protected])

Tremor:
Ever try Liquitex Acrylic orange paint (comes in those little artist tubes)? Looks pretty good. Uh, I mean, it probably looks good. I wouldn't know from experience or anything....

2/3/2005 2:26:30 PM

Central Connecticut

I also am going for Color and shape over weight...ans as such ahve been planting seeds with 810 dill genes...what other great "obtainable" seeds should be in this catagory? Chris

2/3/2005 2:44:00 PM

Garden

Actually Jeff, I am trying to replicate Pumpkinpal's mellow yellow fellow. First picture in his diary.

2/3/2005 3:05:41 PM

Garden

of '04

2/3/2005 3:11:26 PM

Massillon, Ohio

i planted 5 of 6 last year for color (green or ORANGE).

i wanted to try heavy so i planted 1097. splitsville USA. what a let down. lol.

2/3/2005 3:18:51 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

do I have to comment on this thread? lol go orange!!!

2/3/2005 4:52:46 PM

Minnesota([email protected])

It did seem that shiny and orange drew the kids at the fall weighoff. Shape seems quite a bit more variable than color, unfortunately.
It seem there are a good number of growers who breed for orange. Companion is another one who has a lot of orange crosses.
I'm drawn towards orange and nice shape. In my case, it seems shape and color are of about eqaul importance.
One reason I'm planning on growing the 1370 Rose, is because it may throw large, heavy, and orange.

2/3/2005 6:19:22 PM

Indiana

I try to do a couple of both orange and pretty and heavy ugly Hmmm sounds like closing time at the bar.

2/3/2005 7:00:17 PM

Cincinnati,OH

There are no progeny listed for these promising seeds.
1064 Sherwood 03 (783 Daletas x 782.5 Stucker)
930 Daletas 03 (1075 Daletas x 846 Calai)

389 Wheeler 03 (995 Carter x 869.5 Calai)
available at seedoutlet.com

961 Daletas 01 (611 Hester x 846 Calai) grew an orange 1301

The 501 Beachy (? x ? Duke aint talkin ) grew an orange one over 1000 last year

2/3/2005 7:20:58 PM

Buffalo, MN ([email protected])

Everybody loves orange, but size has bragging rites.
I'm just glad we have a choice on what we are going to plant. I'd still plant if none were orange.

2/4/2005 9:16:33 AM

C N Y

pumpkinpal's "mellow yellow fellow"...i like it!!!!
i will be growing the #16 again this year, no doubt!
i let the weeds get outta hand last year, not good.....

2/5/2005 1:22:27 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

The same pollinator for the 846 (1016), grew the 1225 Jutras.
1/2 of it's great-grandparents genetics is 801.5 Stelts

2/5/2005 8:54:55 AM