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Cornelius, Oregon

A loy of people have questions about pruning every other secondary or every third, ect... Lets throw this out there too. Regardless of what pattern you grow your plants in, what are your pruning techniques reguarding which secondaries you leave on and the theories behind it.

Personally, I grow the modified xmas tree. That being said, I typically prune off the first secondary as it is usually weak. Following that I leave the next three for the plant to get a firm base and then begin pruning every other one off. This makes for less competition between vines, and an easier plant to weed, and more air flow to keep out powdery mildew.

The Pumpkinguru

1/12/2005 11:29:29 AM

Hudsonville, Michigan ([email protected])

I have heard the idea of growing a modified Christmas tree style in which the first three secondaries are flared (angled back) more than 90º...Perhaps 135º for the first secondary, 120º for the second and 100º for the third. Then 90º for the remainder, pruning as necessary for airflow. The first three secondaries would already have increased airflow due to the increased angle between them, so no need to prune those. Perhaps this firm start gets the plant going quicker than if one of those first three were pruned. The drawback to this is that because of the angle on the first few secondaries, plants must be widely spaced....back-to-back plantings in one small greenhouse won't do....

I should clarify I have not planted this way in the past, but I know some have had good results with it. I will try this in 2005.

Frank

1/12/2005 12:15:57 PM

porterville, calif.

Brett you need to write a book. All of the knowlege you have from growing these is really something you need to put into a book. I know I would buy it. I still can,t decide what way is best to prune my plants. But when I see the success you have. I figure you have been there done that so i should follow your steps. Greg

1/12/2005 12:46:41 PM

Edmonton, Canada

I'm with Greg. I think I will do the same as Brett this year as well. I had thought about pruning the first secondary, and now, I know I will. I think I will prune every second vine as well. Things just get too overgrown otherwise.

1/12/2005 12:57:59 PM

Lexington, Ky

As a recreational pumpkin grower up to this point (less than 100 lbs), I have often pondered just how much pruning a non giant would tolerate. One of these days I will have an experimental plant that I prune absolutely everything but the main. There are some obvious issues with this extreme experiment but the majority of them could be addressed with above average TLC. With the advances in fruit protection, hardier seed, feeding and watering techniques that are currently in use today, one just might be able to produce something which was totally unexpected, although it probably wouldn't be a heavy.

I realize this post doesn't really belong here but I am very interested in pruning techniques and as a first time grower of giants this year, I will stick to what works or has worked for you all in the past. I can't help but have respect for past growers that stepped out with an idea. Makes me want to think just like 'em!

I posted an a question earlier that hasn't received a response yet so I'll ask again....can one get by pruning every other secondary in the wishbone pattern? Sorry to be redundant but I'm very curious.

1/12/2005 1:23:02 PM

Indiana

I agree with Brett. Every other cuts out lots of time on burying and other junk. Shorter, but broader leaves are less likely to snap off in my opinion. My blower does not snap them off, but in the field where there is no pruning it does.

Tom

1/12/2005 1:25:33 PM

Leamington, Ont.

What do you guys do with the rear vine when pruning?

1/12/2005 1:37:21 PM

Is't the rear main nothing more than the first secondary..thus pruning the first secondary eliminates a rear main from developing..jp

1/12/2005 2:16:06 PM

C N Y

as usual, i will recommend a site called Henry's Hole.
or, the site of Henry Holman.

http://www.homestead.com/henryholman/pumpkins.html

copy and paste this address into your web browser and
go to the site....you'll be enlightened! first, click on
"pruning rules"..........then click on a different one every day 'till yer done. sounds like a plan....
then, come back here and take-on some more info! eric

1/12/2005 5:07:24 PM

Leicester, NY

Brett,
Last year, on most of my plants, I cut out every other secondary and I was happy with how nicely the plants filled out. I like your idea of leaving a few secondaries near the base to help get the plant established and will try that this year, perhaps being a little more selective in which secondaries I remove. There was talk on this site last winter about leaving some secondaries, but cutting off the leaves. I tried that on my 735 plant. Every other secondary was allowed to grow out about 6-8 feet and then the leaves were removed and the vine buried. The other secondaries that were not trimmed were terminated at 13 feet. The fruit on this particular 735 plant went quite heavy and I think this method might be worth experimenting with again this year.. Joe P.

1/12/2005 6:28:39 PM

Saegertown Pa.

on two out of nine plants in 04 I took one of the first side vines and trained it stright back six feet and then dead headed it, I treated it like an extension of the main. on one plant I cut off every other vine I set the pumpkin at 18 feet on the main plus I had the additional six feet that would give me 24 feet. all side vines were around 12 feet so ended up with 24 X 24 behind the pumpkin after the pumpkin I cut the main ten feet past the pumpkin and had a few small side vines after the pumpkin so I had very little leaves after the pumpkin, the plant grew my 1107 the pumpkin split mid Sep. the other plant I cut every third vine I set the pumpkin at 11 feet plus the six feet I had a 24 X 17 behind the pumpkin I let the main go and never cut it that plant grew my 1021 it split in August and was still putting on 20 plus a day. On these two plants I had room behind the stump's to run another vine stright back six feet and I wanted more square feet behind the pumpkin. If I have room I will try it again on a few plants in 05

1/12/2005 6:47:01 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

great info, guys! thanks for sharing... that's what BP.com needs!

1/12/2005 7:04:48 PM

[email protected]

Joe said "There was talk on this site last winter about leaving some secondaries, but cutting off the leaves. I tried that on my 735 plant. Every other secondary was allowed to grow out about 6-8 feet and then the leaves were removed and the vine buried."

Joe, did the buried secondaries without leaves also have adventitious roots when you ripped up the vines like a normally foliated vine?

1/12/2005 9:21:23 PM

Leicester, NY

Steve, The vines without the leaves did not have as many roots growing out of the top portion of the vine. I’m not sure why. The bottom of the vines sent down normal taproots that appeared to be as extensive and well established as the rest of the plant.

1/12/2005 9:51:25 PM

Atlanta, Georgia

Quinn,
On that 6 foot section that grew straight back did you
allow it to have secondaries as well? I'd like you to clarify a bit better exactly what that part of the plant ended up looking like.
I'm a bit confused...like usual.
Thanks!
Michel

1/13/2005 3:15:52 AM

Saegertown Pa.

Yes they were 12 feet long just like the secondaries on the main. so if you add two 12 foot side vines one on each side of the 6 feet section you end up with a square 24 feet by 6 feet or 144 square feet. I think that 6 foot section had 4 side vines total 2 on one side and 2 on the other. Don't feel bad I was a bit confused trying to figure out how to explain it, I wasn't sure I worded it right.

1/13/2005 5:34:47 AM

Deer Park, WI

I agree with the format set forth by Brett and Frank. Angling back the first couple secondaries is an excellent idea provided garden space allows for it. Switching to Every-other secondary after the first 2-3 is a great practice.

1/13/2005 8:56:36 AM

Atlanta, Georgia

I understand it now Quinn and thanks!

You heavy hitters need to write a "Pumpkin Growing for Idiots" book for guys like me!

This is actually a great idea for my patch here at home
because it will allow me to plant right in the middle of the patch and not waste that space behind the stump. I want the stump in the middle because the patch is only about 12 feet wide. It's considerably longer though and is a raised bed so the soil is nice and deep. I got 500lbs out if it two years ago and I think it could do a lot better as an exhibition patch with your method.

If someone wants to look and comment the patch picture is at
http://bigpumpkins.com/Diary/DiaryViewOne.asp?eid=16945

Its a square on the left joined by a triangle on the right.
I usually planted in the upper left corner of the square and
let it swing thru the middle of the patch finally ending up
in the tip of the triangle but I think this was too close to the corner and limited the space for the stump roots. The set pumpkin was just to the right of the gray barrel but now it would be closer to the tip of the triangle but that doesn't matter. If the pumpkin gets too big to fit I can knock down the wood wall of the shed.LOL! With your method I could plant in the middle of the square and still work toward the tip of the triangle. I would appreciate any comments.

Thanks again!
Michel

1/13/2005 11:05:01 AM

Atlanta, Georgia

I just posted pics in my diary that will come out as soon as they are approved of the way I was doing the patch and the way I should try it now from what I understand from this thread. I'd appreciate any of your opinions if you check the diary pics sometime in a day or two.
Michel

1/13/2005 11:25:45 AM

[email protected]

Thanks Joe.

Interesting that the upward aiming roots were absent. Maybe that's in response to the greater light energy in the absence of the leaves. Aerial roots in full sun would be more prone to descication?

1/13/2005 12:01:07 PM

berkshire M.A.

good call steve . Some of us did talk about it over the past year ,and it seens to do well .but i'm still looking for more info. about how the vines realy work .

1/13/2005 12:31:06 PM

Follansbee, Wv

For my first year of growing, I plan to trim every third secondary. This should allow maximun plant foilage, but still give access to each secondary for weeding, burying, foliar feeding, etc. I am still curious about this rear main thing. Is there a rear main? Or, as mentioned earlier, is it a secondary? Is it safe to trim it off?

1/13/2005 12:43:04 PM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

"Aerial roots in full sun would be more prone to descication" - agreed, I've observed the same thing where the sun hits the ground due to a lack of leaves.
But now, this might be a little off subject, I wonder what the best depth is to bury the vine. If only buried two or three inches the top roots will be more subject to desiccation. but if buried too deep the vine might rot due to a lack of oxygen. What is the best depth?

1/13/2005 2:06:45 PM

NEPA [email protected] KB3QKV

How far do you let them grow before you prune them?

1/13/2005 5:38:44 PM

Ontario, Canada.

Joe & Steve, I have wondered about this numerous times. Growing some vines to promote root growth only, has been tried by the number one ranked grower and is still in use. Training the vine as it grows next to an esatblished vine using the canopy for cover may work best in Steve's description. I believe caution is the order here though as a carefully timed thinning should occur regularly until the vine is leafless. Alan, talks breifly about this on the AGGC message threads.

1/13/2005 8:13:23 PM

[email protected]

I believe depth of bury is going to be determined to a degree by the porosity of the soil. Light well aerated fluffy soils that are rich in organic materials can go on pretty deep. But heavy muck or clay soils should be applied sparingly so as to not rob the roots of oxygen.

What are the minimums & maximums? 1-3 inches?

1/13/2005 8:28:52 PM

Deer Park, WI

Monty- the rear main is indeed considered a secondary vine if you are growing in x-mas tree fashion. Sometimes the crown will send a secondary straight back, sometimes it comes out the side. Its up to you to either train it laterally as the first secondary or simply pinch it off and wait for the next one.

Rootbeer- The secondaries and tertiaries that are to be pruned are only allowed to get 1-2 inches long before pinching them off. As soon as the growing point of the secondary or tertiary has extended itself from its parent vine, it gets whacked.

1/14/2005 8:47:53 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Martin, yes opening up too quickly can result in stresses down below in the root zone. Could an every other leaf approach be even better? Leaving all vines on the plant.

1/14/2005 1:44:24 PM

Cologne / Germany

If you decide to go with all vines, I would just remove the leaves where you need to walk or where it´s so close that they touch each other. Touching leaves = risc of injuries and infections.

1/14/2005 5:11:17 PM