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watch out! During the past two weeks I have been contacted by three different growers to try to validate 1260 seeds that they obtained. The first one was easy, he said I sent him two 1260 seeds, I only gave more than one 1260 to three people, he wasn't one of them. The other two growers sent me their seed to compare to my 1260 seeds. Though some pumpkins throw a large range of different seed characteristics the 1260's are almost identical. These two growers did not have a 1260 seed. Not many 1260's to start with, most have been planted, be careful!

1/5/2005 5:57:49 PM

to clarify the above post. The grower made a trade with a person who claimed I sent him two 1260's.

1/5/2005 6:04:01 PM

Liverpool , England

Not very nice say this here, but we should be enlightened to know which person is doing false trading. I have a few trades going at the moment and I would be very concerned if I was trading with a person who is not being honest with me.
Alun

1/5/2005 7:39:18 PM

Mn

Giving fake seeds away is nothing but bad news. All it does is srew up our recordings on the crosses we make. What i mean is:
1260 fake X 846 calai

Now when you make a cross like this people will think it will be a great cross. But it isn't. So people are getting seeds that have an unkown female pollinator based on the example above. Now when people grow the seed above they will get results that would not be characteristic of that cross. All it does is screw up our recordings on the geneic background of the seed. I hate to here things like this becuase it makes us loose faith with people we're trading with and makes us more suspicious.:( :(

1/5/2005 8:04:03 PM

Long Island,New York

We should be told who's passing off bad seeds.

1/5/2005 8:08:02 PM

Liverpool , England

Name and Shame

1/5/2005 9:02:58 PM

New Hampshire

We are putting Craig in a awkward position. I agree that this person Has proven himself to be unfit to trade with and for the sake of our beloved hobby has choose to disgrace the individual, community and the potential gene pool. Saying all that I would hate to be in Craig's shoes right now. Lesson: Be carefull who you trade with!

1/5/2005 9:56:07 PM

Commack, NY

What about the 1260's that got here via Germany, and the company that purchased your fruit?

1/5/2005 9:59:56 PM

Rhode Island

geez, i wonder if the person doing this could be the same idiot that pumped his pumpkin full of water and took it to a wpc weighoff in collins ny many years ago
the last time that guy was seen he was high tailing it out of the parking lot
i agree that if this person is actually doing this then he or she should be given full credit
ron and i have several times questioned the integrity of seed trading and for that reason we only trade with people we know to be honest
they in turn do pretty much the same

sad but true

1/5/2005 10:50:06 PM

Okla

I would suggest any growers that have grown any 1260 Weir seeds in the past couple years that were not gotten in a trade from Craig himself make a personel contact with Craig to verify that the seed was indeed sent to that person by Craig. If there are any of the seeds that were passed off as 1260s and they were not and a grower grew them in good faith, is not sending out the crosses that they are thinking they made in growing them and can be passing on different genetics than what they thought they had, NOT KNOWING they are doing it. I feel for anyone who traded for a 1260 from someone and it wasn't getting put into this type of a situation. That will effect that growers attitude toward making trades with other growers in the future and that is not a good thing. Just my thoughts and please notice I am not directing this at anyone and feel bad for any grower who has been put into this situation by being traded a bad seed.
Like Bears said this puts Craig in a hard situation and maybe a good way for everyone to know who the person(s) is that is making bad trades is by passing on this info privately, not on the open forums, that ways there will not be harsh things put out in the open.

1/5/2005 11:26:38 PM

Ohio

Also like to add to what Thomas wrote, You can put the seed in your scanner and get a real "crisp" picture of it to email Craig if he didnt mind you doing it that way, I have done it a couple times and it worked really well for a grower to verify his own seed.

Brooks

1/6/2005 12:55:47 AM

C N Y

i actually BOUGHT a couple of seeds from an auction last year to compare them to a couple i already had of the same exact ones, as i was unsure of their legitimacy.
BEST BUY I EVER MADE!!!!!well, second...lol....
see, there's a bright side to everything.

ahem, uh, yeah, you bad seed trader(s); stop it!
i would do just what anybody else would do; determine privately who is at fault and privately spread the word on that person that there is a CHANCE that he/she is "shady". he/she would eventually notice that no one would trade with him/her. WE SHOULD NOT, however, announce bad trades or traders on the public forums for fear of ruining a possibly innocent person's reputation, not to mention
his or her spirit and feelings! exactly what Craig is doing is exactly what should be done; a general announcement with plenty of thought put into it, no names, and the message,
"watch out!". does the job.

1/6/2005 2:02:18 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Martin Reiss in Germany bought 30 or more from the company in Germany that bought the fruit off Craig.
Martin's *are* legit, and he marked them all with the number "1260" on each seed. Now, there's a way to verify those seed because of a simple distictive mark that no other grower does.
I've had several so if you have one from Martin, or one that supposedly came from Martin, e-mail me and I'll tell you the sure fire way to tell.

1/6/2005 4:56:36 AM

Ohio

Pumpkinpal, so you have 4 1260 Weirs huh? ,,,,,,,,,How ya doing ol buddy ol pal, you wouldnt want to get rid of one of them 1260,s to a poor ol ohio grower thats down on his luck would ya?,,lmao,,

1/6/2005 4:58:21 AM

Cologne / Germany

Like Martin Reiss, I also bought about 20 seeds from this company in Germany that took the 1260 over here in 2001. I even have the original bill. Since it´s always a good idea to label seeds individually, I started to do so in 2004.
Most growers want to trace back the origin of seeds before doing a trade, so everyone with a clear conscience should be willing to verify the origin of seeds he has to offer. If someone is not cooperating, I would not trade with that person.

1/6/2005 8:14:52 AM

Hilpoltstein, Bavaria, Germany

As some of you might know the 1260.4 Weir pumpkin was bought by a company, Jucker Farmart (they operate both in Germany and in Switzerland), shortly after the 2001 Topsfield weighoff for about 10.000 dollars. The pumpkin was then flown to Germany and displayed at the country's biggest pumpkin exhibition in Ludwigsburg/Stuttgart.
After the exhibition they opened the pumpkin and took out the seeds. When they were dry they sold the seeds to anyone interested, mainly in Germany, in order to refinance their expenses.
I understand that about 80 seeds were sent back to Craig Weir.
I early 2003, when I noticed that there is interest in this seed in the USA, I took the chance and bought 40 of them to do some seed trades. I also have a proof of purchase for them.
I just took a few pictures of my remaining few 1260.4 Weir seeds (for another grower who wants to see the seeds before trading for a 1260). The pictures show the seeds laying on the proof of purchase with a few US coins and a German ruler (in cm) for perspective.
If anyone wants to see the pictures please email me.
I don’t want to post them on here because it would only give people who are trying to trade fake 1260s an idea of how the real 1260s look like.
As Kyle mentioned I marked all 1260s that I sent out so far in the same way with a “German-Reiss” looking “1260”.
So, now you know the whole story...

1/6/2005 8:45:27 AM

Deer Park, WI

FYI, those interested in my 2004 905 seed (898 x 1260), the 1260 that pollinated the 898 came from Floh. Therefore we can both vouch for its legitimacy.

1/6/2005 8:56:41 AM

Wisconsin

Here is my prediction. A fairly large percentage of the seeds floating around are not when they claim to be. Part of it is due to fraud but a much larger part is due to contamination from poor pollination technique.

I remember a couple years ago at a local weighoff I asked people about their pollination technique. An alaming percentage of people didn't bother to cover the females before and after pollination making their crosses unreliable.

I will make a guess, 30% of the seeds are not what we think they are. I wouldn't be surprised if this is a low estimate.

1/6/2005 10:36:04 AM

Massachusetts

The 1260's that I have grown, traded and have now.... all 5 came from Martin. I have none to trade.... no e-mails please. Steve

1/6/2005 1:17:14 PM

Pocatello ([email protected])

I wonder what kind of pen is best for marking seeds?

I wonder if it will come to the point where each grower
writes the weight and a serial number on one side, and
"signs" the seed on the other, with some distinctive
mark. All seeds of a particular seed stock get a certain
mark, known only to the grower (until of course the seeds
are given to others).

Certainly this is not foolproof, but maybe it will come to
that? Ah, I doubt it would happen, because of the effort involved,
and a seed usually doesn't become "valuable" until it's planted,
usually by top growers...

Seed registration databases, anyone? Hmm... probably not,
as any missing numbers (unregistered seeds) just become
prime targets for counterfeiters...

Just random thoughts. Honesty is the best policy.

1/6/2005 3:55:43 PM

[email protected]

Sharpie Ultra Fine Point Permanent Marker works good.

1/6/2005 5:50:30 PM

C N Y

sorry to anyone who may think i have any 1260.4 weirs.
that is not the seed or seeds i was referring to.
and, unfortunately, they are not for sale or trade.

1/6/2005 7:47:20 PM

New Hampshire

You hit the nail on the head JimR!

1/6/2005 8:05:18 PM

C N Y

speaking of "covering flowers, both types;
does anybody realize that cucumber beetles work at night, those little turds? no bags, zip loc or otherwise for me!
unless you TIE the flowers shut, 100%, those little buggers,
and multitudes of other night-crawling insects, i am sure, can crawl up the stems, over the petals and to the early-morning nectar, possibly carrying with them pollen from possibly where you don't want it to be from, even from your own plant. if you are doing a controlled cross, please consider this. use a zip-tie, like a 6-inch, on the males, and a nylon mesh bag with a drawstring on it for the female, so it can open fully. after pollination, zip-tie the female shut again... it gives me BIG piece of mind, doing it like this. so, i'm picky and meticulous, but my crosses are what they really are supposed 2 be. eg

1/7/2005 12:53:29 AM

[email protected]

Eric brings attention to the need for good flower management. Cut all flowers not to be used or mayhem will ensue. Harvest males the night before & keep in the fridge. The ones we're after in the morning won't be open at night unless we heat them to raise the pollen.

Coffee cups placed over flowers do *NOT* make controlled crosses yet I hear of folks doing this. LOL

1/7/2005 8:11:57 AM

Western NY

pens - TDK CD marker worked great for me.

1/7/2005 8:14:14 AM

Riverton, WY

I use the Sharpie Ultra Fine Point Permanent Marker as well & can usually still read the writing on the seed shell several weeks after the seed has germinated.

1/8/2005 7:55:03 AM

my daughter has been getting lots of e-mails titled fake 1260 seeds, if you sent e-mail please read my earlier thread "e-mails" thanks

1/8/2005 6:54:36 PM