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Hudsonville, Michigan ([email protected])

Hey all:
I just noticed the new 2005 weight tables are out and once again they have skewed upward. Just wondering if we could start a discussion regarding use of calcium.
Did you use calcium this year? On fruit? Foliar?
Did your fruit go heavy? Light?
Just trying to determine how much of the % heavy can be attributed to increased use of chelated calcium, and how much to heavy x heavy crosses...
Any thoughts appreciated...
Frank

12/22/2004 10:33:07 AM

Hudsonville, Michigan ([email protected])

As for me I did not use any chelated calcium, but amended soil with 120 lbs of gypsum on 400 sq ft.
My fruit went about even, (.4% light).

12/22/2004 10:54:10 AM

Western NY

I use calcium in the form of gypsum in the soil, calcium nitrate and other calcium products in with the drench water, and have used it as a surface application to the fruit. I personally don't think that it has had much (if any) affect on the thickness or density of the fruit. I think it may have helped the overall health of the plants, which is why i will continue to use it.

I would bet the new estimates will be continually changed every few years so that in a few years when you look back at some of the pre-1996 or so fruit, most of them will be light to the newer standards.

I would bet the trend has to do with our selective breeding for the thicker fruit, and against the thin ones.

12/22/2004 11:02:26 AM

Ontario, Canada.

Frank, I used lots of calcium, both on the fruit(towels) and foliar spray too. Combined with tea, kelp and sea weed extract as well. This resulted in 5 out of 6 competition fruit going heavy. From .6% up to 16.6% over on the 2003 Martin, Stellpflug chart.

1 - 812 Landry 04, 1301 Eaton x 709 McCallum was est. Went down due to a blossom end split in early August but lasted until early September and kept growing even though it was split into the cavity. The 812 was patched and added over 300 pounds during this time. I believe I can attribute this to heavy applications of ca.

12/22/2004 11:07:48 AM

Atlanta, Georgia

I sprayed with Calcium Nitrate and totally defoliated my pumpkin plant but that's my fault for not understanding German enough and I mixed it at least 100 times too strong...

I also used another Calcium powder on the fruits themselves with no bad results but I don't think the calcium powder was actually soluble and I don't have the package anymore to help this discussion but I am interested in this thread.

12/22/2004 1:01:28 PM

Atlanta, Georgia

und jetzt spreche Ich perfecte Deutsche!...LOL

12/22/2004 1:02:24 PM

Waquoit Mass

i have gone the calcium spraying route. the only thing it did was throw off my calcium to magnesium ratio . after talking to ron wilson at niagra last year he told me of the importance of cal to mag ratio in order for the plant and pumpkin to use cal effectivley.im sure steve j could enlighten us also dave

12/22/2004 1:32:27 PM

Commack, NY

Well said Andy, i agree 100%.

12/22/2004 1:50:40 PM

Utah

Ditto !

12/22/2004 2:17:23 PM

wilmington,ma.

I used clelated calcium spray and towels. Went heavy 22%

12/22/2004 4:19:23 PM

ENGLAND

I used moisture soluble calcium Nitrate Granules in my 1996 Patch prep and also as a pressure sprayer applied add in when foliar feeding. I also wiped my 662 with a towel soaked in a very dilute mixture of Boron & Calcium Nitrate from about the 300 lb stage. From memory my 662 was something like 25.2% heavy and the plant was still very healthy right through 4 or 5 frosts. The 662 was blemish free with not even a sign of slight splits or cracking and was still putting on around 10-15 Lbs a day right into mid November. It started developing another rib at the base of the Pumpkin and was litterally pushing it up to gain more height and this continued right up until cull time.

12/22/2004 4:44:05 PM

Cologne / Germany

Over here it´s not easy to get these calcium products, and most of the time it´s not basing on calcium nitrate but calcium chloride. Can someone explain the difference and what is better to use?

12/22/2004 6:23:44 PM

New Hampshire

I use it and had some go light, heavy and right on.

12/22/2004 6:48:37 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

My question in regards to calcium (hopefully this is pertinant to this thread) is WHEN to start foliar applications to fruit and plant...exactly? BF

12/22/2004 8:26:11 PM

berkshire M.A.

? ??

12/22/2004 8:38:24 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

Calcium Chloride!!! Yikes Flo...don't do anything with calcium if your not sure ..chloride melts ice...just because something sez something that sounds like what you need be sure it is what you need...else you could lay fallow for the next generation of floh's...

12/22/2004 8:47:25 PM

[email protected]

Calcium....misunderstood. Needed in massive quantities yet almost never deficient.

While most soils are never deficient in Calcium, it must be available at ALL times or the effect is permanent. Calcium is too low in solubility (plant & soil) to be corrected easily. Calcium availability it critical to the untilization of Nitrogen, Phosphorus & a raft of other critical elements.

We see chlorosis (lack of green chlorophyl) of any kind (Iron, Nitrogen, Magnesium, Manganese, etc) & we instinctively reach for a bottle or bag of our nearest grower-friends favorite panacea. Nine times out of ten, the condition is related to temperature or water related phenoms. But we toss something down, the plant turns green (it would probably have anyway), & the latest is now the greatest! LOL.

From my favorite Calcium resource:

Balances and Ratios
For many years, there have been a few people who claim that there is an "Ideal" ratio of the three principal soil cation nutrients (K, Ca, and Mg). This concept probably originated from New Jersey work by Bear in 1945 that projected an ideal soil as one that had the following saturations of exchangeable cations 65% Ca, 10% Mg, 5% K, and 20% H. The cation ratios resulting from these idealizes concentrations are a Ca:Mg of 6.5:1, Ca:K of 13:1, and Mg:K of 2:1.


Toxicity:
Calcium, for all practical purposes, is not considered to have a directly toxic effect on plants. Most of the problems caused by excess soil Ca are the result of secondary effects of high soil pH. Another problem from excess Ca may be the reduced uptake of other cation nutrients. Before toxic levels are approached in the plant, crops will often suffer deficiencies of other nutrients, such as phosphorus, potassium, magnesium, boron, copper, iron, or zinc.

____This is a great link. Bookmark it________

http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/Ca_Basics.htm

12/22/2004 9:57:27 PM

[email protected]

Additionally:

According to Dr. Stanley Barber, Purdue Univ., "There is no research justification for the added expense of obtaining a definite Ca:Mg ratio in the soilResearch indicates that plant yield or quality is not appreciably affected over a wide range of Ca:Mg ratios in the soil."

Wisconsin research found that yields of corn and alfalfa were not significantly affected by Ca:Mg ratios ranging from 2.28:1 to 8.44:1in all cases, when neither nutrient was deficient, the crops internal Ca:Mg ratio was maintained within a relatively narrow range consistent with the needs of the plant. These findings are supported by most other authorities. A soil with the previously listed ratios would most likely be fertile. However, this does not mean that a fertile soil requires these specific values (or any other). Adequate crop nutrition is dependent on many factors other than a specific ratio of nutrients. It will rarely be profitable to adjust the soil Ca:Mg ratio.

_________end clip___________________

Does Calcium raise the OTT? Sometimes I'm sure it does. But not on all soils & not under all growing conditions. But since Calcium is never likely to be toxic, there is no good reason to ever avoid or restrict Calcium.

Especially the moderate application of the better quality Floral grades of chelated Calcium. It can't hurt & might make the season by adding at the scales.

12/22/2004 10:03:11 PM

[email protected]

As for chelated calcium, which I have never used, please describe the application procedures you go about when applying the product. The only calcium product I added differently in 2004 was 200 pounds of gypsum, and I ended up with some decent fruit in 2004. I will do it again for the 2005 season, and as Andy stated earlier, I do believe it has more to do with plant health than fruits going heavy. So in an indirect way, with the plant being healthier, the fruits can get heavier by simply having good ratios. Some uptake of nutrients (at a maximum benefit for the plant) are only available if the ratios are correct, and I believe, even though my soil tests say excessive calcium, the added gypsum helped in many ways.

12/22/2004 10:27:42 PM

Indiana

My tractor tires are full of calcium chloride...LOL

Tom

12/22/2004 10:37:38 PM

[email protected]

6%N, 10%CA Chelated Calcium Gluconate at 2-3 oz/gal as a foliar, wrap or drench.

12/22/2004 10:48:40 PM

Pumpkintown, SC

Anyone ever experience premature fruit ripening and attribute it to too early/much calcium? BF

12/23/2004 12:27:35 AM

Puyallup, WA

BF...When you find out, let me know how I can listen to my pumpkin telling me that it is receiving too much Calcium.........ditto on too much Nitrogen.

12/23/2004 12:33:28 AM

Pumpkintown, SC

Deduction...

12/23/2004 2:35:57 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Floh,

The product "Chempak Calcium" is sold in a 2kg box in most UK garden centres you may be able to find one that can send to you.

12/23/2004 3:49:51 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

Interestingly the calcium gluconate label can be used on the calcium borogluconate products like I use on the cows.

http://www.omri.org/calcium_borogluconate.pdf#search='calcium%20borogluconate'

12/23/2004 4:42:20 AM

Cornwall UK.(50N 5W)300ft.

very,very interesting.

http://alsnetbiz.com/homeimprovement/boric_acid.html

12/23/2004 4:50:07 AM

Cologne / Germany

I know that calcium chloride is used to melt ice, I wasn´t talking about that, but I guess I found an answer:

"There are a variety of calcium materials available on the market. The most common types contain calcium nitrate, calcium chloride or calcium acetate. The concentration of calcium in the product can vary with manufacturer; the materials and rates listed in the table below have proven effective as summer sprays in UC tests. Keep in mind that calcium nitrate sprays will contribute nitrogen to your crop so adjust your fertilizer program accordingly to avoid excessively vigorous growth. Also, keep in mind that the repetitive use of calcium chloride may lead to some degree of foliar burn toward the end of the season. Apply sprays under conditions favorable for rapid drying to prevent russetting."

http://www.sfc.ucdavis.edu/research/Calcium.html

12/23/2004 5:15:15 AM

Central Mi

Frank

I used liquid calcium for the first time this year on the fruit and plant. Most of my fruit went at or above the charts. I have to say that I only had one split this year so that may be the best part.

Todd

12/23/2004 5:22:57 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

I've done towel wraps for 3 years now and cannot tell any difference in wall thickness between fruit I did use it on, and fruit I didn't....of course, any 2 fruit are going to be different phsyiologically.
I've found it does contribute to keeping the skin more pliable, which theoreticaaly should help with splits. But if a fruit is going to split, it's gonna do it whether you have a calcium towel wrap or not. I've noticed that when I've used it over weeping micro-cracks at the blossom end, they seem to plug up and dry out better.
For future purposes, I'll use it on micro-cracks only, and concentrate on soil gypsum, and Nutri-Cal drenches.

12/23/2004 6:35:28 AM

Waquoit Mass

i told you steve would sraighten this out lol

12/23/2004 10:28:50 AM

[email protected]

LOL! Merry Christmas Dave

Calcium is the savior when it's deficient & harmless when it's not. Soils with jacked Calcium exhibit fewer blossom end rot issues & the fruit might go heavy.

The trouble is we don't have a definitive Atlantic Giant Cooperative test facility to prove our theories.

A grower using Calcium wraps in Ohio can't compare his results to a grower of the same seed 4 states east of him & claim his heavy OTT is because of some new fangled Calcium product he found.

We need to grow several identical cloned plants side by side in the identical soil. Repetition & duplication i n a consistant environment with "treated" & "not treated checks" is the only way to prove or disprove anything.

Let's try to convince the "new GPC" that a co-op test farm would be the best way to advance the sport. I'd ante up cash & materials to a properly managed test facility.

12/23/2004 11:28:25 AM