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Ohio

Which "letters" in a soil test results is your salt level.

3/20/2005 3:37:05 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

na

3/20/2005 4:01:58 PM

Indiana

also watch your Chlorides.

Tom

3/20/2005 5:09:11 PM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

I haven't had a soil test ever. I think that I may wait until the end of the season because once everything melts it'll almost be time to till and plant. I'm not sure if I'll have time.

But, my patch is very near to a road. So, I am expecting a high salt reading. Is there anything that I can do to neutralize some of that? I think I might just go with a home testing kit for this season and go to a lab in October.

3/20/2005 5:25:01 PM

San Diego

my test always shows salt levels, it is represented by "ECe", or "dS/m". The best way to get salt out is by flooding the area with a good clean water source. Jimmy

3/20/2005 5:56:42 PM

Thornhill, Ontario, Canada

Yeah, but that would mean fixing my drainage problem too :-)

3/20/2005 8:52:32 PM

Phoenix, AZ

Being that I fought this in my soil already, I have some insight on "salts"

First, we should not consider Na a salt. It is a cation and as such when it is in our soil, it (as a general rule) attaches itself to the negatively charged soil/organic particles. Because of this, mostly, it will not be suspended in water.

The items that we need to be concerned with and truly make up salts are: chlorides, sulfates, nitrates, carbonates and truly any molecule that is negatively charged. These are anions and are most likely to be held in water suspension becuause they are repelled by the negatively charge soil. Anions are what cause the issue with electrical conductivity (EC).

If you have too much Na, your soil is sodic.
If you have too much salt, your soil is saline.

These two problems are totally unrelated. But you can have both at once, like I did ;)

3/20/2005 9:33:24 PM

Garden State Pumpkins

wouldn't gypsum tie some of it and allow it to leach?

3/21/2005 7:46:10 AM

Appalachian Mtns.

Gypsum is good for removing salts, and it adds calcium which is a major nutrient AG's need. You can't really over-apply gypsum and it won't/shouldn't affect your pH in any way.

3/21/2005 7:51:47 AM

Phoenix, AZ

Gypsum (calcium sulfate) is the reason I said "mostly" and "general rule". Gypsum will release sulfates that attach themselves to sodium and allow sodium to leach. So here we are again talking about a salt: sulfate.

Sodium is the easiest of the cations to leach from the soil if sulfates are present.

3/21/2005 8:07:45 AM

Ohio

Ben, what numbers should you try to reach for the normal range for sodic and saline? Here is my test results below, I dont see Na or saline, Maybe they didnt test for this on this particular soil test right?
I also took my soil to the county office for a cheap soil test that i havnt recieved the results back from, Im assuming they might not give results for na,saline,since its a real cheap test. I think but not positive they only test for ph,p,k,ca,and mg.

Soil Ph- 7
P 191
K 679
Ca 2913
Mg 416
CEC 9.9
Base Saturation Percentages
K 8.8
Ca 74
Mg 18
ca/mg 4.1 :1

fe 192
mn 197
zn 6
cu 3.1
org Mat 8.6

thanks,
Brooks

3/21/2005 9:23:56 AM

Phoenix, AZ

Brooks,

You live in a much wetter area than the dry west. I truly doubt you will have either problem. However if interested, "Sodium Absorbion Ratio" is the calculation used to determine if Na will be a problem. It is an equation of Ca and Mg as compared to Na. Basically when you have lots of Ca and Mg, Na becomes insignificant and the plant won't take up Na in dangerous amounts. In addition, high Ca will keep the Na from dispersing your soil.

I think the only way you would have salt problems is if you use LOTS of fertilizers and never leached them out.

GL this year. I want to know how you do.

3/21/2005 1:18:11 PM

Phoenix, AZ

Oh sorry, the numbers I have researched and found for cucurbits you want to shoot for are a SAR of 5% or less and an EC of 2.5 or less.

3/21/2005 1:20:55 PM

Western NY

pumpkins are mildly tolerant of salt, but when shooting for peak conditions, i would imagine you want as little as possible. Mike Frantz has done the best (1083, 1125) on the higher end of salinity (2.7 for EC) that i know about according to my file. It's important to note that his Na was only 1% in the base saturation, though.

3/21/2005 2:40:57 PM

San Diego, Ca.

I can vouch for the effectiveness of gypsum in helping to leach away salts. A year and a half ago I had new soil trucked in to replace my old clay and rock soil. When I had the soil tested the ECe was at 27.8, Na was at 1800ppm and the base saturation for Na was at 22%
I have no idea what was put in that soil to make it so bad but I went to work by adding loads of gypsum and an underground drainage system. A year and a half later and many gallons of water, my latest test results are; ECe 2.0,
Na 15ppm, and base saturation for Na is .5% Not too bad huh. I had the calcium up to almost 5000ppm before the heavy flooding now it is at 2250ppm so I guess the calcium washes away with the salts too. I'm looking forward to a much better year in this patch.

Andy, are you still collecting soil test results? I'll send you mine if you are.

3/22/2005 12:46:56 AM

Ohio

Thanks!

3/22/2005 11:28:03 AM

Western NY

yep, i'm always looking for more. especially if there are tests that can tell me a "story" over time such as yours.

3/22/2005 5:59:59 PM