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In the shade - PDX, OR

Hey Steve - I was wondering if you could share some info in regards to the different forms of Nitrogen.

I was wondering about Muracid 36-0-0, & Turf 40-4-4 soluable forms as well as the granular lawn form.

Calcium nitrate would be my ideal choice but the smallest qty I could find was 50 lbs. Seems to be a waste for only 10 lbs a plant.....

Thanks,
Ceis

5/25/2003 10:51:42 PM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Ceis,
When looking at solubles, we can usually ignore the name brand & check the label for the "nutrients derived from" statement that should appear in fine print somewhere near the guaranteed analysis. Major soluble plant food manufacturers include Fritt Industries, Doggett (aka Nu-Grow), etc. Most of the name brands companies are buying from someone else & relabling or private labeling. The most likely source of manufacturer trouble with any of these is improper storeage & QC where improper humidity causes the material to clump. Though improper milling may cause difficulty mixing.

The most likely source of end use trouble is one of timing, rate, & failure to consider salt index potential issues.

The Nitrogen that we use is most likely derived from the any of the following & some characteristics:

Source NPK SI/UnitN LeachPotential Cost

Urea 46-0-0 1.6 Moderate Low
Amm. Nitrate 34-0-0 3.2 High Low
Amm. Sulphate 21-0-0 3.3 High Low
Calcium Nitr. 16-0-0 4.2 High Mod
DAP 18-46-0 1.6 High Mod
MAP 11-52-0 2.5 High Mod
Potas.Nitrate 13-44-0 5.4 High Low

There are many others less frequently encountered. I have some of these charts saved as PDF's & in Word. Send email for a copy.

Hope this helps.

Steve

5/26/2003 8:06:35 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

I was afraid of this. Should have used some....to define space.
Sorry

5/26/2003 8:07:24 AM

In the shade - PDX, OR

Thanks Steve.

I appreciate the info.

Ceis

5/26/2003 11:37:38 AM

Chico, Ca

for fast acting nitrogen without supporting the petrochemical industry try using blood meal. best when worked in to the soil ahead of where you are growing. I have found that my soil has been trashed with petrochem fertilizers.

Robert

5/27/2003 1:25:59 AM

Montoursville, PA

At a Penn State study seminar for Organic Gardeners one of the professers said something to this effect: Of all the manufactured chemicals one might expect some 25% to be available. You might expect the plants to use 7%. The rest my friends goes into your watershed. They flanked their sides a little by defining the water shed as the distance between the top of the chemical bag through the Chesapeak Bay to the Atlantic Ocean.

They made no beans about it that organics overapplied are absoutely just as wrong as manufactured chemicals. Either or leaching into the watershead is equally as damaging.

They defined the organic movement as the fastest growing successfull movement in food production. The under thirtys age group have become the market for organically grown foods.

They defined the manufacture of chemicals and use there of as a poorly devised method of application to increasing and ever increasing need for long term reduced results.

The keynote speaker got a chuckle saying the worm has turned and he is coming back into the position of king of the garden. He suggested that in the not to distant future more and more well paid worm and beneficial insect peddlers will circumvent the agriculture globe teaching the basic organic principles.

5/27/2003 11:35:31 AM

Ctpumpkin@optonline.net

Dwaine,
We have a patented matrix trimethylene-diurea fertilizer of the aminoureaformaldehyde type that out-performs the applied fate & recovered nitrogen potential of nearly all the organics.

We've helped restore Salmon fisheries with our extremely stable "Nutri-Stone" technology in parts of Canada. Organics were tried & failed.

*Organic* also does not mandatorily mean *better*.

I absolutely do not believe the 7% recovery statement & would like to see reference to a published & peer reviewed study. I'll nearly guarantee that no reference is available?

Just a hunch though.

Steve

5/27/2003 7:16:16 PM

Puyallup, WA

I wouldn't touch this one with a "ten foot pole"!! :>)

5/27/2003 9:57:26 PM

Montoursville, PA

My hunch is that any group gathering under the name of any movement will have within itself keynote speakers who will feed the brain and the emotion of the most important paying seminar individuals with similar interests.

Similar events seem to be university intellect based often to the point of insanity, for any rhyme or reason. Learned experts for or against any cause can and do line up, to support each other. Within their circles they publish both truth and folly to their satisfaction. Always did, are still and always will. Carefull use of intellect and words can prove or disprove the same product. process or theory.

The only measure of success is the success that can be seen and counted. At the moment the interest in organics has increased to higher than 20%, of total product volume, in the major supermarkets. That is no small set of numbers in view of the fact that the cost of the products are normally higher therefor reflecting a higher percentage of retail cash flow.

I guess what might scare the Bejesus out of some would really be a Godsend to others. 20% lost market share is a healthy number any way you look at it. This part of organic farming process has been tried and it 'aint working pretty good.

5/27/2003 10:59:15 PM

Mineral Virginia

But gosh Steve, when I'm going to eat something, I would prefer knowing it was fertilized with chicken manure, which is very, very high in Nitrogen and the chickens were organically fed. Something just sits wrong in my little brain with eating something fertilized with an ingredient called "aminoureaformaldehyde". Now maybe this also occurs naturally, I dunno, but it sure sounds unhealthy.

Since I live in the same water-shed, the Chesapeake Bay act, while ambitious, certainly is having a ripple effect through our agriculture. They are telling our kids in school it is illegal to dam springs and creeks because it lessens the water supply to the bay.

5/28/2003 9:38:34 AM

Montoursville, PA

Illegal to be sure. I made a three log dam on a step over trickle stream for the kids play in at the cabin. We are talking a two hundred gallon dam. Yep I had to tear it out by official decree. Got scolded good!

A hiking trail passes the cabin. A do good sucker reported me. Someone had to come take a picture so I could be scolded. Next time fined.

5/28/2003 11:06:17 AM

Mineral Virginia

but the arguement is simply rediculious! If I have a spring on my property which I dam, the spring doesn't know when the pond is full, once it is, it overflows and water continues again.

Who is responsible for beaver dams that block creeks up?

I'm going to give my extension agent a call to see what his angle is; one of the reason I bought the property I now live on was the abundant supply of water for livestock, a pond etc.

5/28/2003 11:16:00 AM

Montoursville, PA

No one claims any responsibility. It is simply sometimes insane. The kids will do better with natural in stream rock and have more fun doing it. I'm going to trash the picnic table I built and lock our back porch to keep the breaking in hikers from enjoying our little nook. They will actually go on to our porches to have their beer and sandwiches. Naturally they leave the beer bottles for us to clean up. Worse yet throw and break them in the stream. Multi use is a good sounding term. State leases look like public property apparently. Smokey the bear never polices these acts.

5/28/2003 11:34:21 AM